The Tsunami and God

[cmotherofpirl]

The Tsunami and God

By Stephen Hand



It has taken time to settle into our minds and shake us all existentially: that over a hundred thousand human beings were wiped out -----very suddenly. And before it is all over, the number of those who will die of the devastating medical and economic consequences will stagger again.

Some openly admit to doubting the existence of a good God ---as so often happens--- in the awful light of such world-shaking events. None other than Rowan Williams, the Anglican Archbishop of Caterbury, gave expression to their doubts:

"Every single random, accidental death is something that should upset a faith bound up in comfort and ready answers. Faced with the paralysing magnitude of a disaster like this, we naturally feel more deeply outraged - and also more deeply helpless. Prayer provides no 'magical solutions'
"Prayer," he went on to say, provides no "magical solutions" and most of the stock Christian answers to human suffering, he confessed, do not "go very far in helping us, one week on, with the intolerable grief and devastation in front of us".

There is no question that such events must at least damage false, liberal reconstructions of God, as our eyes behold, our hearts break, and minds stagger at the enormity of human suffering. Yet while death almost always shocks us existentially, God has not left us totally blind about its cause. Human beings, qua human beings, die one at a time, even when they die together in such cataclysms.

You and I will likewise die. And for each of us, the death will likely have an aura of tragedy rooted in humankind's primordial Fall from grace (Genesis 1-3) which occured through an abuse of freedom. Satan said to Adam, contrary to the Word of Yahweh, "You will not surely die" (Gen 3:4). And thus Adam was induced into an act of profound transgression which has affected all of human history and the earth itself.

The Whole Creation Groans

According to the biblical revelation of the God who acts in time and space, the "whole creation groans" (Rom 8:22) in anticipation of the final redemption on account of humankind's Fall into sin, which was and remains the cataclysm which shadows both human lives and human history. Because, for each one of us, whether we die alone or with others, "the wages of sin (original and personal) is death" (Roman 6:23). It is the primordial debt. It is a reminder that we are all involved---whether we like it or not, whether we admit to it or not---- in this Sin and promised redemption. So we are warned not to forget it.

Just when any one of us is presuming we have plans, wealth, good looks, charm, or whatever, and thus a bright, wonderful future, so that we can presume to "take life easy; eat, drink and be merry, " we are warned that, exactly then, we could hear God say, "You fool! This very night your soul will be demanded of you" (Parable of the rich fool," Luke Luke 12:16-21).

This is no stock answer. It is the Word of God. 'Let God be true and every man a liar," that Word says (Rom 3:4) when it comes to the fixed truths of of human existence. Sentimental liberal views of God must often perish when confronted with such objective reality: "It is appointed to men to die and after this the judgement" (Heb 9:27).

To deny the Fall----to take the scissors and paste to God's own revelation-----is to leave existence utterly inexplicable. It is also to forfeit the answers God provides. Darwin's mythological and anthropomorphized doctrine of "chance," regarding the origins and end of life, does nothing to mitigate grief. It only propels it to ultimate despair.

The "Second Death"

Since the Fall, death, in itself, should never surprize us, even if it often comes as a thief in the night. The bell tolls for each of us. It is from the "second death," of ultimate, eternal separation from God that we must be saved, beyond the debt which is the wages of sin. (Rev 2:11)

Life is a test since the Fall: "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11). "Overcoming" is trusting all the way, through earth, wind, water, fire, and every kind of tribulation.

And, unlike that liberal morphing of God into a sentimental day dream which is easily collapsed when devastation hits home, the believer will say with Job: "Though He Slay Me, Yet Will I Trust In Him" - Job 1:4-5

The Cross

Upon the cross, even the Son of God felt utterly forsaken as the dying so often do. But he passed through that awful state, dying a horrific death on a gibbet of execution and he ultimately pronounced the greatest act of faith ("Into thy hands I commend my spirit" ) and pronouncement of the divine forgiveness on us all in the history of time.

This cosmic Event which occured in time and space is now the symbol of Christianity: God on the cross, suffering with us as time proceeds to the Eschaton. In our suffering we share His suffering which he offered for us, taking not the blame for the Fall, and all subsequent sin----our human free will must accept that----but assuming responsibility for a creation he loves as Abba, Father. It is man who needs to be reconciled, not God.

Ministers of Reconciliation and Healing
2 Corinthians 5:17-20

Meanwhile he asks us to share his ministry of healing, peacemaking, and beatitude (Matt 5-7) toward all who suffer, whether in nursing homes, on the streets, in nihilisms wars, in events like Chernobyl, Hiroshima, or when the earth quakes. For in the divine plan Love is pitted against nihilism.


from TCRNews.com

[Phatmasser777]

[quote]"Every single random, accidental death..."[/quote]

Tectonic plates arent accidental!

[quote]"whole creation groans" (Rom 8:22) in anticipation of the final redemption on account of humankind's Fall into sin, which was and remains the cataclysm which shadows both human lives and human history"[/quote]

Yes SIN caused tectonic plates to rub and move against each other, then when someone sins one breaks above another, creating a vaccum of nothingness, then a tidal wave...all this due to SIN..ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote]Hiroshima[/quote]

Funny enough that genocidal act was committed by a 'christian' nation 'under God'.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is NO 'GOD', in the Jewish/Christian/Islamic/Hindu etc etc way. If 'God' was all-loving, he wouldnt have plagued us with virus', diseases like ebola, AIDS/HIV, mental diseases, physical diseases and deformaties. Yes The Ever and always loving God, that while loving us, plagues us with death, fear, and pain.

Edited January 9, 2005 by Phatmasser777

[Quietfire]

If you so honestly believe that there is no loving God, then why do you post here?
If your goal is to disrupt and confuse, then it wont work, you will simply be ignored.
I have yet to see you post anything of intelligence, and your opinion (like the one above) does not help.

Now if you wish to learn, then you must open your heart and listen. For someone to thinks that God "plagues us with death, fear and pain" you have an odd view of not only your creator but the world that He created.

God allows suffering, because through it we may grow closer to Him, through Christs own sufferings. God doesnt start the fight, He finishes it.

Pax

Edited January 9, 2005 by Quietfire

[Phatmasser777]

Quietfire, are you eyes open, if there not, check the title of this section of forum.

[quote]you have an odd view of not only your creator but the world that He created.[/quote]

Yeah its hard to miss all the truth, love and guidence..please....

[quote]God allows suffering, because through it we may grow closer to Him, through Christs own sufferings. God doesnt start the fight, He finishes it.[/quote]

Yes, im sure someone dying by ebola, would really thank God for such a gift. Thats the biggest bunch of carp ive ever heard of to defend a being of such hatred, anger, revenge, murder, genocidal ways and every other plague on this earth!

==================

tr[ yjr [p[r

rep the pope

BTW. Pretty poor coding.

[Quietfire]

How much you seem to miss the point.
God does not create our suffering, we do that all on our own.

Natural disasters such as the tsunami, are going to happen, whether we are here or not. Our sin didnt cause the tsunami to happen, and that article does not even hint that.
That article though, was written about persons like yourself, who question God and simply choose not to believe that He is a kind and loving God. Youre angry, and who better to blame than God, or better yet, choose to think that there is no God. (why? Because people died?)
While I am saddened by the loss of life in the tsunami and the aftereffects which are sure to cause more loss of life, I do not blame God for this.
You on the other hand, feel that God has decided to wipe out a few hundred thousand people simply because He chose to?

[quote]Yes, im sure someone dying by ebola, would really thank God for such a gift. Thats the biggest bunch of carp ive ever heard of to defend a being of such hatred, anger, revenge, murder, genocidal ways and every other plague on this earth![/quote]
I thank God for all my suffering, even if I were diagnosed with cancer or some other terminal disease, I would pray to God to give me strength, courage and humility to meet my suffering in a Christ-like way. That doesnt mean I would wish a disease for myself or anyone else, but rather that even in suffering, we can grow closer to God, through Christ Our Lord. After all, we are taught that Christ shares our suffering with us.
I would pray that if someone dying by ebola, would thank God for the opportunity to suffer in a way befitting Christs suffering for us, and that through his suffering he may obtain purification, sanctity and the opportunity for the conversion of sinners and his own soul.

Heck, I cant explain this to you in a way that I would think you'd understand. I was were you were once. Cynical, blind and refusing to see God as He really is.
But in all honesty, it wasnt until I saw a devout Catholic woman dying of a painful, horrid, disease and that she handled it in such a herioc and dignifying and humble way that I began to understand, and that was 7 years ago. It was at that time that I was were you are now. Actually, I never even gave God much thought, and when I did, it was with a very distinct lack of interest and understanding. Or with an attitude like yeah, God's great, whatever.
She never complained, never asked, "Why me?", never blamed God. She was so ready to meet Our Lord that when she died there was a smile on her face, and she appeared like a child laying there with such a look of peace about her. And I dont mean she was happily waiting to die. On the contrary, she prepared for the obvious and always worked toward recovery. But she also looked forward to being in His presence, and seeing those she loved there as well.
You will never know how much she suffered, heck! I will never know how much she truly suffered. She never spoke of it, although at times it was written on her face and obvious on her body.
The suffering she experienced helped to purify her here, I honestly believe that now. Her suffering was hard on her family as well, since even now they are still having a difficult time dealing with their loss.

She and I never discussed religion. She practiced her faith through actions. I knew she was Catholic, but that was the extent of our communication on that. I miss her more now, because I wish I could tell her all these things and talk to her about it.

As far as her disease, well, she didnt deserve it. She didnt bring it on herself, like a smoker might get lung cancer. But she accepted the fact that she had it and made the best of it. She was a definite role model, a pious and faithful woman. I have learned so much from her sacrifice I cant even begin to explain it. The humility that she showed day in and day out with the pain she experienced was (in hindsight) extroidinary. The love and charity she gave in her life was amazing.

The fact that this woman had to watch her only child die in front of her, knowing that there wasnt a damned thing she could do about it and then bury her child after she died... then lose her husband a few years later suddenly never even caused a tremor in her faith. Do you know what she said when she was diagnosed and told she had less than a year? Two things.."He's must be ready for me now" and (on a funnier note to ease us) "That bastard cant even get along in Heaven without me" in reference to her husband. Yeah, you had to know her to understand. But that last comment still makes me laugh.

I understand more now that if her suffering caused even one-ONE!- conversion of a sinner, then her suffering was not in vain.






I know that because I am that sinner.



Oh, and in reference to this...tr[ yjr [p[r
You havent been here long enough to understand, but there was nothing secretive in it. Poor coding? please, it was some fun we had in open mic. Get over it.

[Dreamweaver]

Quietfire, that story reminds me of my grandmother (God bless her soul) who was a devout Catholic for as long as I can remember her. She lived with liver cancer for 10 years, longer than any doctor would have thought. It was very painful I imagine, but her suffering only made her grow stronger in faith. I remember her serving as a lector and a extraordinary Eucharistic minister for as long as I can remember also.

She didn't curse God or wallow in her suffering, but chose to unite herself with Christ. There are many others that view suffering and illness as a time of spiritual growth. It makes us realize God's power, and how we are dependant upon him. He created us, and also has the power of death as well as healing.

During the outbreaks of Ebola in Africa, many nuns cared (and subsequently died) for the sick and dying. Would their last days be spent cursing God for creating Ebola? I'd rather think that the nuns would be happy that God chose them to be able to help the sick, even if it means their own death.

[curtins]

Phatmasser 777-

I think you are very cynical- theres alot of evil in the world but there is also good and that good comes from God. God loves us so much that he sent his son to suffer and die for us- for a detailed explenation of that- watch the Passion of the Christ and you'll see just what Jesus (who is God) went through for US- and he didnt do that for no self gradification or for money- he did it because he LOVES US. The way I see it- the world always had, has, and will have its natural disasters and violent natural events- when Adam and Eve sinned- they were cast out of Edden- Edden was a refuge from the world- ie all the natural events such as storms earthquakes and volcanos were goin on in the world just as they do today- but Eden was protected from all that and subsiquently who ever was in Eden was protected from it. Now when man sinned he was cast out of Eden and into the world- it was his choice to stay faithful to the Lord and be in Eden- paradise- or chose to sin against the Lord and be cast out. Man chose the later- thus he was cast into the world and man was subject to the world (which is not a nice happy perfect plastic thing where nothing happens) with all of its natural events. Its not God that just wakes up one day and decides to send 150,000 people to their graves via tsunami just cuz hes not in a good mood. The earth is a natural planet and it has its natural events. Could God stop them if he wanted to? of course hes God- but he wouldnt because its nature and its how it works. And God does not plague us with diseases- AIDS- man's own sinfulness and selfishness and unchastity- thats what lead to the rise of aids. And God created the world with microscopic viruses that live in the world but remember it was man's own sinfulness and choice to sin and get kicked outta Eden and into the world where there are these things. But your arguement is pretty bad because thats like sying- ok im gonna sin all my life and not follow God but because God is all good and nice and loving I know that I'll reach heaven anyways- no. Remember that God is loving but God is also just.

hope this helps you to understand and think other wise
God bless

[Quietfire]

Amen.
[quote]During the outbreaks of Ebola in Africa, many nuns cared (and subsequently died) for the sick and dying. Would their last days be spent cursing God for creating Ebola? I'd rather think that the nuns would be happy that God chose them to be able to help the sick, even if it means their own death.[/quote]

Yes! Those poor folks with Ebola probably thought all sorts of negative things, and most people probably wouldnt blame them for that. Then come along these women who were willing to take that extrodinary chance to help them, even if it meant to help them die with dignity, even if it meant their very own life to show them God's mercy.
Now Im sure some PEOPLE might think it better had we simply aided in a quick death for these folks, and the culture of death would have applauded. But to show those suffering kindness is such a great gift for both involved and sends a message that we are to be here for each other in all times, whether good or bad. We are not animals that should be euthanised when sick, but rather shown reverance for each other, because that is why God created us, and what He created us for.
The tsunami was sad, truly. So many deaths, each one separately a great loss. But we are to band together as brothers and sisters in Christ to assist in any way possible, dry their tears, help them up when they fall. We cannot change events of the past, but we can change the way we view the future. Each human life is so precious that it should be looked at as our own. Those people are our family in every spiritual sense. Their loss is our loss too.

Morgan Freeman once said...If you lay down and give up, people will step over you, but if you raise your hand, someone will ALWAYS help you up.

[curtins]

morgan freeman is a sick actor and btw quietfire is it ok if i use ur sig quote for my yearbook quote?

[Quietfire]

curtins. no problem on the sig. Another good quote is "Common sense is a marvelous gift-pity it's so rare." F.J. Sheed.

Morgan is a sick actor? Does he have a boo-boo?

[curtins]

no sick like sweet- or awsome or totaly rockin

[toledo_jesus]

young people and their slang.

[Quietfire]

Oooooooohhhhhhhhhh, thank goodness.
Why didnt you just say that then? Nevermind.

I grew up with Morgan and Ive always liked him. Such an awesome actor. He was asked once if he met God what would be hoped God would say and he replied, "Ok, let's do it again."

[curtins]

lol

well morgan was god- well not really God but god in bruce almighty

[Phatmasser777]

Good and evil doesnt come from God. It comes from us.