Ammo against Stem Cell Research

[Ianny01]

No argument there.

Sincerely,
Ianny01

[Carnanc]

I don't know for sure, but I would think that cloned humans would still have souls, unless they were not human.

[Benedict]

A cloned human being has a unique human soul.

[Dreamweaver]

It is my understanding that God gives a soul to cloned humans in his mercy.

I love stem cells, and bioethics. Here are some websites that will help you out.

[url="http://www.stemcellresearch.org/"]Do No Harm[/url]

[url="http://www.fumento.com/sustemcell.html"]Michael Fumeno on stem cells[/url]

[url="http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=submitSearchQuery&query=Wesley%20J.%20Smith&orderBy=date&orderDir=DESC&searchBy=author&searchType=all"]Wesley J. Smith on stem cells and ethics[/url]

I had the honor of attending a presentation by Mr. Smith. Great guy, and very great discussions on stem cells. One thing that really impacted me was that it is not feasable to use embryonic stem cells, even IF they were acutally able to differentiate as adult stem cells can. How would you get the thousands of embryos? IVF clinics only have so many. How would you get the eggs to make more embryos? Women aren't going to be lining at the doors to be hyperovulated and have eggs surgically removed. He speculated that companies would "outsource" to third world country women and exploit them for eggs, where money is more of a conern that health risks.

In years of study, even in mice, there haven't been any breakthroughs by using embryonic stem cells. In China, someone underwent treatment for (can't remember if its Parkinson's or alzheimers) using embryonic cells, and they died. The cells didn't differentiate into the proper brain cells, and instead it turned into a fetal tumor of sorts. Hair and teeth growing inside his brain.


Good luck on your discussion. Don't be scared to expose the light on the facts and myths regarding stem cells.

[Don John of Austria]

I don't know I have serious resercvations about the sould of cloned humans, I flatly deny that geneticly enginneered creatures ( no matter how much they resembeled humans would in fact be humans, and there fore would not have souls.

[Phatmasser777]

I support stem cell research. Its doing a great job of curing diseases, of course if the right-wing extremists dont try and halt it, and drag us back another 100 years, we'd have fixed and cured many diseases and illnesses, that funny enough 'the loving and merciful God' plagued us with

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 7 2005, 10:00 AM'] I support stem cell research. Its doing a great job of curing diseases, of course if the right-wing extremists dont try and halt it, and drag us back another 100 years, we'd have fixed and cured many diseases and illnesses, that funny enough 'the loving and merciful God' plagued us with [/quote]
First off, the 'right wing extremists' support stem cell research, just not fetal stem cell research. The breakthroughs in the research are coming from adult stem cell research. And for those who say it's for a good cause and it is moral to kill an embryo if it can possibly save peoples lives, then let me pose a situation to you.

Terrorists have seized a building filled with a thousand people in it and have said they will blow it up with everyone inside in 24 hours. They have agreed to one thing though. If you show up in front of the building with a baby, take a gun, and shoot the baby through the head, then they will let you roll 2 dice and if 12 comes up, they will release all the hostages. That is what people want to do with stem cells. They want to slaughter humans for the chance of getting a cure. The ends of both situation are good (hostages released or people cured). However, the means are essentially identical. Instead, a different approach to the situation should be taken to acheive the same end. That different approach is adult stem cell research.

Of course, this argument doesn't matter if you don't believe that a 'fetus' is really a human. But if a fetus isn't really human, are you really human? You don't just magically become one. There is only one identifiable moment to become human and that is conception.

[Phatmasser777]

LOL. Wow you people are quite over-the-top with everything. Outlandish scenerio's to support your false positions.

Edited January 8, 2005 by Phatmasser777

[Dreamweaver]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 7 2005, 10:00 AM'] I support stem cell research. Its doing a great job of curing diseases, of course if the right-wing extremists dont try and halt it, and drag us back another 100 years, we'd have fixed and cured many diseases and illnesses, that funny enough 'the loving and merciful God' plagued us with [/quote]
As a student with a huge interest in science and majoring in biotechnology, I feel that I am credible to comment about this.

I also support stem cell research! It indeed has done a great job at curing diseases. We have fixed many diseases and illnesses as you said.

The thing that most people don't realize is that ALL the advances made in the field of stem cell research have been accomplished through adult stem cells and umbilical cord blood stem cells. Even in animal research (which has been going on for much longer than human research), embryonic stem cells haven't treated anything.

I don't think that the whole anti-embryonic stem cell crusade is a result of just right wingers. I think anyone with a brain and with access to science can see that adult cells are profoundly different than embryonic cells. There is a whole big mess of problems that result from using embryonic derived cells (besides any ethical or moral problems).

[cathqat]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Jan 8 2005, 12:31 PM'] I don't think that the whole anti-embryonic stem cell crusade is a result of just right wingers. [/quote]
Certainly not. I've met many "lefties" who are [i]very[/i] opposed to embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, and the destruction of human embryos.

[Sarcastic Stare]

I resurrect this thread from the depths of the debate table to say:

Thank you!! i didnt get a chance and you guys were a great help. everything worked out well.

[Melchisedec]

I dont know the ins and outs of stem cells. But I do know there is alot of scientific data and cases where these cells have accomplished tremendous feats. In one case, a man who lost his whole jaw from cancer, was able to get one grown naturally from stem cells.

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5832265/"]New jaw bone grown in man’s back muscle[/url]

Its an issue close to me since my moms life hinges on stem cell breakthroughs.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 7 2005, 12:00 PM'] I support stem cell research. Its doing a great job of curing diseases, of course if the right-wing extremists dont try and halt it, and drag us back another 100 years, we'd have fixed and cured many diseases and illnesses, that funny enough 'the loving and merciful God' plagued us with [/quote]
embryonic stem cells have "cured" nothing.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 15 2005, 02:09 PM'] I dont know the ins and outs of stem cells. But I do know there is alot of scientific data and cases where these cells have accomplished tremendous feats. In one case, a man who lost his whole jaw from cancer, was able to get one grown naturally from stem cells.

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5832265/"]New jaw bone grown in man’s back muscle[/url] [/quote]
That's really cool about the guy's jaw. If you read where they got the stem cells from you'll see they came from the man's own bone marrow. No fetus was harmed in making the man's new jaw.