Sarcastic Stare Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Okay, I was on another forum and a poll was taken on the banning of stem cell research. i posted and someone would like to provoke a ... discussion. i'd just like to respond calmly and cooly and informed. so if anyone would like to aid me in this, your help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I don't have anything at my fingertips right at this moment but if you use the search option and look up "stem cell" for the phorum you're likely to find a bunch of posts that will have helpful information in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarcastic Stare Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Thank you Ice, will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Can you give any specific questions this person is asking you about your opposition to stem cell research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarcastic Stare Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 "would you ban it if you could?" was basically the thread question. and the person i speak of quoted me and said pretty much " how could you ban something that has brought such medical breakthroughs as such and such." i felt a discussion coming on and just needed some info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Stem cells have no made any major breakthroughs, not as much as adutl stems cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I dont think there's much to really argue at all besides saying that many scientists believe the stem cells are technically human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Actually i'm very interested as to why we are against it. Anyone have any link explaining it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Jan 6 2005, 07:06 PM'] Actually i'm very interested as to why we are against it. Anyone have any link explaining it? [/quote] Catholics oppose fetal stem cell research because it requires the destruction of human embryos, i.e. human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Here are a few documents: [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2004/documents/rc_seg-st_20040927_cloning_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretar...cloning_en.html[/url] DOCUMENT OF THE HOLY SEE ON HUMAN CLONING 1) The Holy See is convinced of the need to support and promote scientific research for the benefit of humanity. Thus, the Holy See earnestly encourages investigations that are being carried out in the fields of medicine and biology, with the goal of curing diseases and of improving the quality of life of all, provided that they are respectful of the dignity of the human being. This respect demands that any research that is inconsistent with the dignity of the human being is morally excluded. 2) There are two potential sources of stem cells for human research, firstly "adult" stem cells, which are derived from the umbilical cord blood, the bone marrow and other tissues and secondly "embryonic" stem cells, which are obtained by the disaggregation of human embryos. The Holy See opposes the cloning of human embryos for the purpose of destroying them in order to harvest their stem cells, even for a noble purpose, because it is inconsistent with the ground and motive of human biomedical research, that is, respect for the dignity of human beings. However, the Holy See applauds and encourages research using adult stem cells, because it is completely compatible with respect for the dignity of human beings. The unexpected plasticity of adult stem cells has made it possible to use this type of undifferentiated, self-renewing cell successfully for the healing of various human tissues and organs, (1) particularly in hearts damaged after myocardial infarction. (2) The multiple therapeutic achievements that have been demonstrated using adult stem cells, and the promise they hold for other diseases, such as neurodegenerative disorders or diabetes, make efforts to support this fruitful avenue of investigation an urgent matter (3). Above all, it is universally agreed that the use of adult stem cells does not entail any ethical problems. 3) By contrast, research using human embryonic stem cells has been hampered by important technical difficulties (4). Embryonic stem cell experiments have not yet produced a single unqualified therapeutic success, not even in animal models (5). Moreover, embryonic stem cells have caused tumor in animal models (6) and might seed cancer if administered to human patients (7). Unless these grave hazards are removed, embryonic stem cell experiments would not have any clinical application (8). Technical problems aside, the need to extract these cells from living human embryos raises ethical questions of the highest order. 4) The so-called "therapeutic cloning", which would be better called "research cloning" because we are still far from therapeutic applications, has been proposed in order to avert the potential immune rejection of embryonic stem cells derived from a donor other than the host. However, the use of cloned embryonic stem cells entails a high risk of introducing cells from abnormal embryos into patients. It has been well established that most of the non-human embryos produced through nuclear transfer cloning are abnormal, with a deficiency in several of the genes (imprinted and non imprinted) necessary to the development of the early embryo. (9) Embryonic stem cells harvested from abnormal and unfit embryos will carry their "epigenetic defects" and transmit at least part of them to their daughter cells. The transfer of such cloned embryonic stem cells into a patient would be therefore extremely hazardous: these cells might provoke genetic disorders, or initiate leukemias or other cancers. Moreover, a non-human primate model of cloning, which would be necessary in order to conduct experiments to establish safety before attempting therapeutic experiments in human beings, has yet to be developed (10). 5) The health benefits of therapeutic cloning are hypothetical, in as much as the method itself remains mainly a hypothesis. Thus the crescendo of hyperboles extolling the promise of this type of research might in the end undermine the very cause it pretends to serve (11). Indeed, even putting aside fundamental ethical considerations other than the patient's expectations, the present state of "therapeutic cloning" precludes, now and in the near future, any clinical application. 6) Scientists, philosophers, politicians, and humanists agree on the need for an international ban on reproductive cloning. From a biological standpoint, bringing cloned human embryos to birth would be dangerous for the human species. This asexual form of reproduction would bypass the usual "shuffling" of genes that makes every individual unique in his/her genome and would arbitrarily fix the genotype in one particular configuration, (12) with predictable negative genetic consequences for the human genepool. It would also be prohibitively dangerous for the individual clone. (13) From an anthropological standpoint, most people recognize that cloning is offensive to human dignity. Cloning would, indeed, bring a person to life, but through a laboratory manipulation in the order of pure zootechnology. This person would enter the world as a "copy" (even if only a biological copy) of another being. While ontologically unique and worthy of respect, the manner in which a cloned human being has been brought into the world would mark that person more as an artifact rather than a fellow human being, a replacement rather than an unique individual, an instrument of someone else's will rather than an end in himself or herself, a replaceable consumer commodity rather than an unrepeatable event in human history. Thus, disrespect for the dignity of the human person is inherent in cloning. 7) However, some would like to leave the prospect of "therapeutic cloning" out of this proposed international prohibition, as if it were a process different from the reproductive one. The truth is reproductive cloning and "therapeutic" or "research" cloning are not two different kinds of cloning: they involve the same technical cloning process and differ only in the goals being sought. With reproductive cloning, one aims to implant the cloned embryo in the uterus of a surrogate mother in order to "produce" a child; with "research" cloning, one aims to utilize immediately the cloned embryo, without allowing it to develop, thus eliminating it in the process. One can even affirm that any type of cloning is "reproductive" in its first stage, because it has to produce, through the cloning process, an individual autonomous new organism, endowed with a specific and unique identity, before attempting any other operation with that embryo. 8) "Therapeutic cloning" is not ethically neutral. Indeed, ethically speaking, it would even be worse than the "reproductive cloning." In "reproductive" cloning, one at least gives the newly produced human being, innocent of his/her origin, a chance to develop and be born. In "therapeutic" cloning, one uses the newly produced human being as mere laboratory material. Such instrumental use of a human being gravely offends human dignity and human kind. The term "dignity", as used in this Position Paper and in the Charter of the United Nations, does not refer to a concept of worth based on the skills and powers of individuals and the value that others may attribute to them - a value one might call "attributed dignity". The notion of attributed dignity allows for hierarchical, unequal, arbitrary, and even discriminatory judgments. Dignity is used here to mean the intrinsic worth that is commonly and equally shared by all human beings, whatever their social, intellectual or physical conditions may be. It is this dignity that obliges all of us to respect every human being, whatever his or her condition, all the more if he or she is in need of protection or care. Dignity is the basis of all human rights. We are bound to respect the rights of others because we first recognize their dignity. 9) Honesty suggests that if one specific course of research has already demonstrated conditions for success and raises no ethical questions, it should be pursued before embarking on another that has shown little prospect of success and raises ethical concerns. Resources in biological investigations are limited. "Therapeutic cloning" is an unproven theory that may well turn out to be a dramatic waste of time and money. Good sense and the need for goal-oriented, serious basic research therefore calls on the world's biomedical community to allocate the necessary funding to research using "adult" stem cells. 10) The world cannot take two different roads: the road of those who are willing to sacrifice or commercialize human beings for the sake of a privileged few, and the road of those who cannot accept this abuse. For its own sake, humanity needs a common basis - a common understanding of humanity and a common understanding of the fundamental bases upon which all our ideas about human rights depend. It is incumbent upon the United Nations to exert every effort in the search for this basis, so that human beings may be respected as they are. To bring forward the project for an international, global prohibition of human cloning is part of this UN mission and duty. From the Vatican, September 27, 2004 [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20020923_martino-cloning_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretar...cloning_en.html[/url] INTERVENTION BY THE HOLY SEE DELEGATION AT THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE OF THE 57th GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED NATIONS ON HUMAN EMBRYONIC CLONING Monday, 23 September 2002 Thank you, Mr Chairman. The position of the Holy See is well known. The Holy See supports and urges a world-wide and comprehensive ban on human embryonic cloning for both reproductive and scientific purposes. Human embryonic cloning, even when done in the name of bettering humanity, is still an affront to the dignity of the human person. Embryonic cloning objectifies human sexuality and commodifies human life. As Pope John Paul II recently stated, "Human life cannot be seen as an object to do with as we please, but as the most sacred and inviolable earthly reality. There can be no peace when this most basic good is not protected.... To [the list of world injustices] we must add irresponsible practices of genetic engineering, such as the cloning and use of human embryos for research, which are justified by an illegitimate appeal to freedom, to cultural progress, to the advancement of mankind. When the weakest and most vulnerable members of society are subjected to such atrocities, the very idea of the human family, built on the value of the person, on trust, respect and mutual support, is dangerously eroded. A civilization based on love and peace must oppose these experiments, which are unworthy of man" (World Day of Peace Message, 1 January 2001, No. 19). Based on the biological and anthropological status of the human embryo and on the fundamental moral and civil rule, it is illicit to kill an innocent even to bring about a good for society. The Holy See looks upon the distinction between "reproductive" and so-called "therapeutic" (or "experimental") cloning to be unacceptable. This distinction masks the reality of the creation of a human being for the purpose of destroying him or her to produce embryonic stem cell lines or to conduct other experimentation. Human embryonic cloning must be prohibited in all cases regardless of the aims that are pursued. The Holy See supports research on stem cells of post-natal origin since this approach - as has been demonstrated by the most recent scientific studies - is a sound, promising, and ethical way to achieve tissue transplantation and cell therapy that could benefit humanity. As His Holiness, Pope John Paul has stated, "In any event, [scientific] methods that fail to respect the dignity and value of the person must always be avoided. I am thinking in particular of attempts at human cloning with a view to obtaining organs for transplants: these techniques, insofar as they involve the manipulation and destruction of human embryos, are not morally acceptable, even when their proposed goal is good in itself. Science itself points to other forms of therapeutic intervention which would not involve cloning or the use of embryonic cells, but rather would make use of stem cells taken from adults. This is the direction that research must follow if it wishes to respect the dignity of each and every human being, even at the embryonic stage" (Address of Pope John Paul II to the 18 International Congress of the Transplantation Society, 29 August 2000, No. 8). Embryonic cloning accomplished for biomedical research or producing stem cells contributes to assaults against the dignity and integrity of the human person. Cloning a human embryo, while intentionally planning its demise, would institutionalize the deliberate, systemic destruction of nascent human life in the name of unknown "good" of potential therapy or scientific discovery. This prospect is repugnant to most people including those who properly advocate for advancement in science and medicine. Since embryonic cloning generates a new human life geared not for a future of human flourishing but for a future destined to servitude and certain destruction, it is a process that cannot be justified on the grounds that it may be able to assist other human beings. Embryonic cloning violates the fundamental norms of human rights law. "Since 1988, two great global divides have grown deeper: the first is the ever more tragic phenomenon of poverty and social discrimination ..., and the other, more recent and less widely condemned, concerns the unborn child ... as the subject of experimentation and technological intervention (through techniques of artificial procreation, the use of "superfluous embryos', so-called therapeutic cloning, etc.). Here there is a risk of a new form of racism, for the development of these techniques could lead to the creation of a "sub-category of human beings', destined basically for the convenience of certain others. This would be a new and terrible form of slavery. Regrettably, it cannot be denied that the temptation of eugenics is still latent, especially if powerful commercial interests exploit it. Governments and the scientific community must be very vigilant in this domain" (Holy See's Contribution Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance - Durban, South Africa, 31 August to 7 September 2001, No. 21). Since the founding of the United Nations, the centrality of the welfare and protection of all human beings to the work of this organization is beyond question. The safekeeping of present and succeeding generations of human beings and the advancement of fundamental human rights is critical to the work of the UN. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights reiterates the sanctity of all human life and the compelling need to protect it from harm. In this regard, Article 3 of the Declaration asserts that everyone has the right to life. With life comes hope in the future - a hope that the Universal Declaration protects by acknowledging that all human beings are equal in dignity and rights. With the right to life comes liberty and security of the person. To ensure this, the Universal Declaration confirms that each human being is an entity who is guaranteed a future filled with the hope of self-determination. To further this end, conditions that degrade any human being with servile status and deny the fundamental rights to life and self-determination are reprehensible and unacceptable. Regardless of the objective for which it was done, human embryonic cloning conflicts with the international legal norms that protect human dignity. International law guarantees the right to life to all, not just some, human beings. Facilitating the formation of human beings who are destined for destruction, the intentional destruction of cloned human beings once the particular research goal is reached, consigning any human being to an existence of either involuntary servitude or slavery, and conducting involuntary medical and biological experimentation on human beings are morally wrong and inadmissible. Human embryonic cloning also poses great threats to the rule of law by enabling those responsible for cloning to select and propagate certain human characteristics based on gender, race, etc. and eliminate others. This would be akin to the practice of eugenics leading to the institution of a "super race" and the inevitable discrimination against those born through the natural process. Embryonic cloning also denies those subjects who come into being for research purposes international rights to due process and equal protection of the law. In addition, it must be remembered that state practice and the development of regional treaties have acknowledged that human embryonic cloning conducted for any end is contrary to the rule of law. Mr Chairman, we must remember that every process involving human cloning is in itself a reproductive process in that it generates a human being at the very beginning of his or her development, i.e., a human embryo. Thank you, Mr Chairman. You can find more here: [url="http://vatican.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmFind.exe?query=Stem+Cell+Research&CFGNAME=MssFindEN.cfg&en=x"]http://vatican.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/Msm...FindEN.cfg&en=x[/url] God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 6 2005, 08:19 PM'] Catholics oppose fetal stem cell research because it requires the destruction of human embryos, i.e. human beings. [/quote] Exactly, adult stem cells are acceptable as are cells taken from donated umbilical cords (that is, not from aborted babies, but cords that parents have donated after the mother gives birth to her child), if I'm not mistaken. There are enough strains of adult stem cells out there right now that there isn't any need to use embryonic stem cells. Edited January 7, 2005 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnanc Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 well, I believe many scientists agree that although embryonic stem cells have thus far resulted in little or no progress, they have the most potential because unlike fetal or adult stem cells, embryonic stem cells are the most versatile. Yet all embryonic stem cell research should be banned because it always involves the taking of human life. The reason we do not have a ban is partly due to new reproductive technologies such as in vitro fertilization, where many of these embryonic cells die in an implantation attempt. Another issue is what to do with the existing stem cell lines, and the freezing of embryos because there is always a percentage of embryos which will not survive the thawing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtins Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 ok heres the thing #1 it isnt right to take a life to save a life #2 cloning is wrong because only God can make life happen and humans cannot start acting like God and plus a clonned baby has no soul because it doesnt come from God- it comes from a lab and it really is not a real perosn. so many things have given way to evil now we cant even have God make life??? we have some scientists do it?!?!? i dont think so #3 like it has been stated- adult and umbilical cord stem cells have shown more promise and there is not moral or ethical violation #4 when you say ammo it must be pronounced AIM-oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianny01 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I'm not so sure that cloned human beings would have no souls.... Sincerely, Ianny01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Bottom line: the end never justifies the means. here's two articles for ya.... [url="http://priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/01-07chaputembryo.htm"]http://priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bish...haputembryo.htm[/url] [url="http://priestsforlife.org/columns/columns2001/01-07-16stemcell.htm"]http://priestsforlife.org/columns/columns2...-16stemcell.htm[/url] pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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