dairygirl4u2c Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 i'm hoping you all know the arguments. if you do, then you should be able to relay them back to me. if you don't then you'll be shown for. i'm not going for a eureka moment where you all convert, i'm goin for one maybe where you finally internalize the arguments. i don't think most here really understand the opposition. perhaps i don't understand. i think i know pretty much the jist of all the arguments. but this exercise will let me be found out too. and when i say give me the anti-papal arguments, i mean the historical arguments. philosophical too if you want, but that'll just get dense. let's stick with the facts and interpretations of them. somebody wanna begin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 May I ask if you are Catholic, dairygirl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Jan 8 2005, 07:15 PM'] i'm not going for a eureka moment where you all convert, i'm goin for one maybe where you finally internalize the arguments. i don't think most here really understand the opposition. [/quote] I grew up Protestant. I used to actually believe and proclaim Luther's idea that the Pope is the antichrist. Personally I think that's plenty "internalized" and "understanding"! The problem is, I have not met any really "good arguments against the papacy," because all the ones I've ever seen fell away under reasonable scrutiny. Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookwyrm Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 8 2005, 09:06 PM'] I grew up Protestant. I used to actually believe and proclaim Luther's idea that the Pope is the antichrist. Personally I think that's plenty "internalized" and "understanding"! The problem is, I have not met any really "good arguments against the papacy," because all the ones I've ever seen fell away under reasonable scrutiny. Does that help? [/quote] You rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 (edited) also... I want to expressly state my motive. I'm not looking for you to convert to anything per se. I am trying to make you internalize the arguments. I'm looking for this because I want you to understand all arguments before choosing a position theologically. i also hope that you begin to live Christ's true messages instead of just going through rituals and thinking you're doing God's will... if that's all you're doing i mean. If you can relay to me the best of the opposition and still want to be catholic, then I respect that like it's nobody's business. I'll disagree, but still respect. in my opinion, this type of examination is what Jesus wants of all of us. i think i'm doing His will. [quote]I grew up Protestant. I used to actually believe and proclaim Luther's idea that the Pope is the antichrist. Personally I think that's plenty "internalized" and "understanding"! The problem is, I have not met any really "good arguments against the papacy," because all the ones I've ever seen fell away under reasonable scrutiny. Does that help? [/quote] because this is an epitome of an example that i always get. the first argument isn't that great. if this is the extent that you know of.. then you better re-exam your beliefs. even if they fall apart... give me your best! Edited January 9, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Dairygirl, this is like asking someone to argue that the sky is plaid. No one could truly put his heart into something like that. Those of us who once argued against the papacy and discovered the errors of our arguments simply cannot put much, if any, effort into repeating something we now know/believe is false and flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Jan 8 2005, 11:35 PM']I am trying to make you internalize the arguments.[/quote] Arguments against the papacy don't [i]get[/i] any more "internalized" than believing the pope is the "antichrist." [quote]if this is the extent that you know of.. then you better re-exam your beliefs.[/quote] If I find that "no arguments against the papacy bear the weight of reasonable scrutiny" then I should re-examine my beliefs? Are you suggesting that I should begin accepting and internalizing ideas that [i]contradict[/i] reason? That's nonsensical. If you think that I do not regularly [i]study and examine[/i] arguments against the papacy, you are sadly mistaken. I've been doing this [i]for years[/i], and in much more serious venues than this. But I have never found a "good" argument against the papacy because, as I said, none of them bear the weight of reasonable scrutiny. They all fall away under the light of truth and reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeamFamily Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 how do you expect someone who has the truth and knows it, enough so to consider the opposition and prepare defenses of it, to be "converted" to change their belief? and why cant we challege you to do the same thing for our point of view, the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucharistaholic Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 All right Dairygirl, I'll bite, since I have had this same discussion while practicing some apologetics on a "born again" site. I'll give you some stuff they told me and you can refute it. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention the pope. How can you say there is a pope, when it is obviously not in the Bible? Peace, E-aholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Moreover, if those worthless catholics would go back to the Greek, they would obviously see that "Petras" means "little pebble" and Christ was not asserting that Peter is the cornerstone of the Church - only [i]Christ[/i] is, duh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 true indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Four words: "Sweet God the Pope." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmGuy127 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 could the pope decide that there should be no pope, and fire himself? just curious-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 [quote name='FilmGuy127' date='Jan 12 2005, 06:09 PM'] could the pope decide that there should be no pope, and fire himself? just curious-- [/quote] The Pope could resign but a much higher authority than he set up the office. However, I have always wanted to be elected the (false) Prophet of the LDS Church so I could abolish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 [quote name='Benedict' date='Jan 12 2005, 08:11 PM'] I have always wanted to be elected the (false) Prophet of the LDS Church so I could abolish it. [/quote] It would take too much effort to rise that far in the ranks, though. You'd have to be temple-worthy and rise through the ranks of bishop and such... and even if you made it to the top tier of apostles, you'd have to outlive everyone.... Too much work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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