ironmonk Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 6 2005, 05:31 PM'] Good grief. I didn't say that you actually said the Church supported the war in Iraq. I said you [i]almost[/i] made it [i]sound[/i] that way (because of the way different ideas were run together in your post). [/quote] Nothing to good grief on... I know what you wrote... and I disagree. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 6 2005, 04:07 PM']But what I am saying is that Catholics need to work for a moral reform of American culture, so that such evils can eventually be prevented.[/quote] That would certainly be more proactive. [quote]The right to assemble peaceably is not absolute, for the State has the duty to protect moral values and defend the common good.[/quote] I agree. [quote]although their arrests may have been "legal" under present civil law, their arrests were in fact an abuse[/quote] I do not know that I agree with this statement, because I think they should have just applied for a demonstration permit. It is not an "unjust law" for the city to require one, and I don't think Christians should do things the illegal way if a legal way is open to them. So unless the Christians were unjustly denied a demonstration permit before the arrest, I think they probably went about this the wrong way and/or should be willing to accept the legal consequences of the action. Perhaps there are more details to the case of which I am not aware. Does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 6 2005, 03:28 PM'] I do not know that I agree with this statement, because I think they should have just applied for a demonstration permit. It is not an "unjust law" for the city to require one, and I don't think Christians should do things the illegal way if a legal way is open to them. So unless the Christians were unjustly denied a demonstration permit before the arrest, I think they probably went about this the wrong way and/or should be willing to accept the legal consequences of the action. [/quote] It was an abuse of the law, and disruptive of the common good in the first place, to give "Outfest" a permit to assemble, that action in and of itself was an injustice to law abiding citizens. Had the public authorities done their proper duty, no one would have been arrested at all, because there wouldn't have been a demonstration promoting an immoral agenda contrary to right reason and the objective moral norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 [quote]It was an abuse of the law, and disruptive of the common good in the first place, to give "Outfest" a permit to assemble, that action in and of itself was an injustice to law abiding citizens. Had the public authorities done their proper duty, no one would have been arrested at all, because there wouldn't have been a demonstration promoting an immoral agenda contrary to right reason and the objective moral norm.[/quote] Apotheoun-- I agree but our government does not and never has conformed to the objective moral norm, it should not suprise us that they do not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jan 6 2005, 03:41 PM'] Apotheoun-- I agree but our government does not and never has conformed to the objective moral norm, it should not suprise us that they do not now. [/quote] That is beside the point, it is the duty of Catholics to evangelize American society in order to instill our nation's culture with the principles of the Gospel. This will not be an easy task, but it is the true task of the laity to sanctify the world. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I agree. But I do not see how hat can possibly happen under this government, and I do not mean this adminisration but this government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 6 2005, 05:36 PM'] It was an abuse of the law, and disruptive of the common good in the first place, to give "Outfest" a permit to assemble, that action in and of itself was an injustice to law abiding citizens. [/quote] But given that the Outfest folks were already permitted to assemble, even if wrongly permitted, shouldn't Christians who wished to protest have attempted legal means of demonstrating in response before illegal ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 6 2005, 05:15 PM'] But given that the Outfest folks were already permitted to assemble, even if wrongly permitted, shouldn't Christians who wished to protest have attempted legal means of demonstrating in response before illegal ones? [/quote] Of course they may suffer persecution for it, but Christians must stand up for the truth in all situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jan 6 2005, 04:56 PM'] I agree. But I do not see how hat can possibly happen under this government, and I do not mean this adminisration but this government. [/quote] You have a right to your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 smart aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 error has no rights. i still don't see the u.s. gov functioning as holy church says the state should--and i really don't think the church is comfortable with republics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 y the rolling eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again']y the rolling eyes?[/quote] It wasn't directed at you. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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