The Anglicans

[ICTHUS]

I go to an Anglican private school, and I was just wondering, I had heard that the Anglican Church does not have valid apostolic succession.

Why or why not?

(If the Church teaches this, why does she teach it??)

[JP2Iloveyou]

The Anglicans do not have valid Apostolic succession. At one point, they had valid priests because a man once ordained, even if he leaves the Church, remains a priest forever. At some point in time, I'm not sure when, they lost their succession. Probably due to invalid ordinations.

[BLAZEr]

Anglican Orders were decalred invalid by Pope Leo XIII in Apostolicae Curae. It has more to do with the fact that Anglicans don't believe in the Real Presence (like we do) and they don't have our theology of the priesthood. They are in a recognizable line (they can trace their orders back like we can) but they do not share our thought and teaching. Form and Intention both have to be present for a sacrament to occur.

Here it is from the Cath. Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01644a.htm

Edited October 19, 2003 by BLAZEr

[Paladin D]

Can Anglican priests marry or not?

[hyperdulia again]

here's something odd i've been wondering about...is leo xiii's judgement still in force even though the anglican bishops ALL got re-ordained by orthodox metropolitans and patriarchs in the twenties...there isn't a single anglican bishop who doesn't trace his line back to these ordinations eighty years ago...20 years after the holy see last looked into the matter.

[BLAZEr]

here's something odd i've been wondering about...is leo xiii's judgement still in force even though the anglican bishops ALL got re-ordained by orthodox metropolitans and patriarchs in the twenties...there isn't a single anglican bishop who doesn't trace his line back to these ordinations eighty years ago...20 years after the holy see last looked into the matter.

John Paul II issued Ad Tuendam Fidem to defend the Faith against some errors, it was a Motu Propio to make some amendments to Canon Law. In the Doctrinal Commentary by Cardinal Ratzinger and the CDF, it reasserts that Anglican Orders are invalid and that this is a magisterial teaching

http://www.cin.org/jp2/adtuen.html is Ad Tuendam Fidem

and this is the Doctrinal Note

http://www.cin.org/docs/adtuennt.html

Edited October 19, 2003 by BLAZEr

[cmotherofpirl]

When Anglican priests join the Catholic Church they are reordained.

[hyperdulia again]

thanx blazer and cmom

[KennC]

"Can Anglican priests marry or not?"

Yes they can, ... this is where the Catholic Church ends up with married Priests.

Ken

[BLAZEr]

"Can Anglican priests marry or not?"

Yes they can, ... this is where the Catholic Church ends up with married Priests.

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic (and Roman) Church with Pope John Paull II as its head also has married priests in the Melchite Rite, the Syriac Rite, the Byzantine Rite (though very few), the Maronite Rite (again very few), and other Eastern Rite churches . . .

[Norseman82]

I'm sure the historians can expound on this more, but...during the 1500s when the English monarchy under Henry VIII but especially Elizabeth I were making themselves to be their own popes, were there not bishops who were removed and replaced by the monarchy? Wouldn't that constitute the original breach of apostolic succession? Or, if a bishop took the oath of allegiance to recognize the king as head of the church and they confirmed/ordained the crown-appointed bishops, would that be more properly be called schism, similar to the Lefebvrite situation today? And are bishops who are ordained by schismatic bishops considered to have valid apostolic succession??

Just splitting some technical hairs.....

[Katholikos]

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic (and Roman) Church with Pope John Paull II as its head also has married priests in the Melchite Rite, the Syriac Rite, the Byzantine Rite (though very few), the Maronite Rite (again very few), and other Eastern Rite churches . . .

BLAZEr, I'm not sure, but I seem to remember reading that in the U.S. only, Eastern Rite priests were not allowed to marry after a certain date. Do you know if this is true?

[Norseman82]

BLAZEr, I'm not sure, but I seem to remember reading that in the U.S. only, Eastern Rite priests were not allowed to marry after a certain date. Do you know if this is true?

Yes, it happened sometme in the late 1800s when someone in Minneapolis was shocked to find a married Catholic priest, so the Vatican disallowed US eastern-rite dioceses from ordaining married men. But the married men are now ordained for an overseas diocese (like in the Ukraine). I found this out many years ago by interviewing a Ukrainian-rire Catholic priest (Chicago has a sizeable Ukranian-rite Catholic population).

I don't know if this restriction has been lifted yet.

[Ellenita]

during the 1500s when the English monarchy under Henry VIII but especially Elizabeth 1 were making themselves to be their own popes, were there not bishops who were removed and replaced by the monarchy?

I would certainly suspect so. There was untold persecution of Catholics during their reigns, and of course of protestants under the reign of Mary, the English Catholic queen who ruled between Henry and Elizabeth. An interesting period of history where the Catholic church was very involved and influencial in European politics, attempting to remove Elizabeth from the throne for example and replace her with her Catholic cousin Mary Queen of Scots. I have often wondered if the high Anglican churches had origins as Catholic churches but were forced to become protestant during this persecution and over the centuries have adopted a protestant creed!

making themselves to be their own popes

The monarchy has never represented to the Anglican church what the Pope does to the Catholic church. They are the 'nominal' head of the church, not regarded as an infallible link to God, and the ties between church, monarchy and state are slowly decreasing over time. I believe this will be even more obvious if Charles becomes King since he is known to be very interested in other religious faiths and is reportedly keen not to have 'defender of the faith' as part of his ceremony when he is crowned.

The position of the authority of the pope is of course the biggest issue which divides the two churches.

[hyperdulia again]

The Sovereign has the final say over all religious matters (at least in regard to Church government and appointments) in the Church of England. Queen Victoria removed an Archbishop of Canterbury for pushing a low church bishop on her when she wanted one of the young stars of the Oxford (Anglo-Catholic) movement. It has been said that the current Queen is the only thing standing between same-sex marriage and the official sanction of the Archbishop.