M.SIGGA Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 4 2005, 12:51 AM'] Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965. The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000. [/quote] ... and the cost of tuition has tripled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [quote name='Lil Red' date='Jan 4 2005, 02:36 PM'] as a youth minister, you have no idea how many times i hear the phrase "it's not worth the fight to get them to go". if your child's spiritual life, their very soul is not worth the fight, then what is? i'm trying hard to change that attitude, but it's hard.... [/quote] I find this really very discouraging. (I'm sure you do too!) It shocks me how many people just couldn't care less about thier children's spiritual upbringing. Kids go to school (well, most kids do anyway ) Would you just say, "well, I let him drop out in the third grade, cuz it just wasn't worth the hassle"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jan 4 2005, 12:55 PM'] I find this really very discouraging. (I'm sure you do too!) It shocks me how many people just couldn't care less about thier children's spiritual upbringing. Kids go to school (well, most kids do anyway ) Would you just say, "well, I let him drop out in the third grade, cuz it just wasn't worth the hassle"? [/quote] amen to that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Most people did not even bother to read Vatican II documents. People just used the council as an excuse to promote their own agendas "in the spirit of Vatican II." (a nonsensical phrase). Thus liberals did and taught all sorts of things not actually allowed by Vatican II, and some conservatives blamed the council itself for all the nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 i hate that phrase...in the "spirit of vatican ii" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conservativecatholic Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 (edited) [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jan 4 2005, 12:58 PM'] "Who here has doudted the validity of Vatican II?" I didn't say anyone had. But statements like this blaming VII are not uncommon. "Alot of it has to do with Vatican 2. " And there are alot of ultra traditionalist Catholics (including my brother) who do bash VII and say it was heretical. On the catholicconvert.com board there is a moderator who has a trailer on all his posts "Gee thanks Vatican II". Vatican II is not the problem. The emphasis on education from Vatican II is the solution. It needs to be implemented. I see that happening slowly. Blessings [/quote] I agree and totally understand. It bothers me when people, especially some traditionalists, accuse and slam Vatican II of being hereitcal. They are the reason for the countless and problematic schisms we have today, not the infallible Church of Christ. St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits, desired to reform the Church within as a response to the heretical Reformation. As a result, a number of abuses were put to rest and the Catholic Church regained much of its former glory as a respected insitution. We need more Church leaders and laymen like St. Ignatius today. I feel that Pope John Paul II as well as numerous Cardinals such as Cardinal Ratzinger and Cardinal Dulles are modern St. Ignatiuses because of their steadfast determination to hault liturgical abuse after Vatican II and their courage to solve numerous incorrect interpretations of the Council. I pray that the next pope will too lead a great transitional period from Vatican II. Yes, we are still in transition. People tend to forget that it takes years for a Council, especially the Second Vatican Council, to fully be examined and to fully be implememnted. The Church is still working out the kinks and in my opinion, they are doing a fabulous job. May God Bless! Edited January 4, 2005 by conservativecatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 The causes of the problem addressed in this thread or complex and different people have noted different causes of the problem. However, I think the lack of orthodoxy is the root of this evil. Many in the priesthood and the now-older generation turned away from the teachings of the Church in the '60s and '70s and started "doing their own thing." A watered-down, liberalized "feel-good" Christianity will have no appeal to the youth or anyone else. What's the point? Why bother to go to church? Parishes/dioceses/institutions that are orthodox are flourishing. Orthodox seminaries are producing man priests (while bad seminaries have a vocations crisis.) Orthodox colleges such as Christendom College produce many vocations. Many will complain that these places are too small or few in number. However, they are the beginning of a revival. We should promote the revival, rather than fall into despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conservativecatholic Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 4 2005, 03:34 PM'] The causes of the problem addressed in this thread or complex and different people have noted different causes of the problem. However, I think the lack of orthodoxy is the root of this evil. Many in the priesthood and the now-older generation turned away from the teachings of the Church in the '60s and '70s and started "doing their own thing." A watered-down, liberalized "feel-good" Christianity will have no appeal to the youth or anyone else. What's the point? Why bother to go to church? Parishes/dioceses/institutions that are orthodox are flourishing. Orthodox seminaries are producing man priests (while bad seminaries have a vocations crisis.) Orthodox colleges such as Christendom College produce many vocations. Many will complain that these places are too small or few in number. However, they are the beginning of a revival. We should promote the revival, rather than fall into despair. [/quote] Well stated. A renaissance within the Church is slowly occuring in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 The role of the Catholic lay apologist is fourfold: explain, defend, evangelize, and breed. One hope we have is that liberals are self-destructive while the orthodox "go forth and multiply". Proper education in the faith is one of our most vital goals as the distortion of the faith is the only chance of survival liberals have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 This is one of the main reasons why I'm being careful on discerning my vocation. Things like this would want me to join the priesthood just to "raise the numbers", but if I do it for that reason only... I won't be an effective priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I have struggled with the same thing. I am one of those people who is willing and able to do whatever to help out and I came from a parish that ends every mass with a prayer for vocations. I still feel an urge to become a priest in order to help but my reflections on the priesthood lead me to believe that that is not where my gifts were intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [quote name='Benedict' date='Jan 4 2005, 04:59 PM'] I still feel an urge to become a priest in order to help but my reflections on the priesthood lead me to believe that that is not where my gifts were intended. [/quote] That's what I've been thinking, many of my talents wouldn't be as effective if I were in the priesthood. It would probally be do-able, but very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jan 4 2005, 02:55 PM'] It shocks me how many people just couldn't care less about thier children's spiritual upbringing. [/quote] What's really weird to me is that some do seem to care, but only in a really vague way. I used to teach CCD, for example, in a small-town parish, for example. There were about 7 to 8 kids in my 3rd-5th grade group. None of their parents ever went to Mass, nor took their children to Mass. They just dropped the kids off [i]after[/i] Mass for CCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karin Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 When I first felt called to be a nun i didnt tell people because my peers (not my friends) made it seem like being a nun or a priest was sort of shameful embarrassing. Like you were a freak not to be associated with if you did stuff like that. I am of course telling everyone now (it is hard to tell my non catholic friends) actually me and my friends are the only ones who know our prayers or care to learn anything in ccd its just not cool i guess to know your faith. I think the rates have dropped because everyone in todays society are to pushed when they are young to go out and date and make out and love money and be very worldly. In todays society if you didnt get good catholic teachings in your family and didnt have good catholic upbringing, then you dont think about being a nun or priest because you will be made fun of and persecuted (i know i speak from experience) by your own friends, so you just push it out of your mind and emmerse yourself in whats "popular" at the time. I dont know if any of this makes sense guys but i hope you get the jist of what i am trying to say. God Bless Karin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 For me personally, one of the strongest witnesses to the Faith was a friend I had who became a cloistered nun. She was a very attractive, good-looking woman, and could probably pretty much have any man she wanted. Earlier in her life, she was not a bad girl, but didn't act particularly different than anyone else. But before she entered the convent, there was a noticable change about her, a certain joy and charity and a holiness you could almost feel. She did not seem bitter towards the world and seemed quite happy about her choice to join the convent. This was weird because her behavior did not make any sense at all from a worldly perspective, or from a psychological perspective. However, it spoke louder than any verbal argument about the Faith. So don't worry about being "weird" - this can be a powerful witness that people will respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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