Why?

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 4 2005, 05:38 AM'] Alot of it has to do with Vatican 2. [/quote]
Why don't we quit dissing Vatican II. It was a legitimate Ecumenical Council. That it was pastoral in nature does not diminish it's legitimacy. That the decrees of the council were distorted by liberals is not the fault of the council. I have read much of the councilar and post councilar documents and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them, except when it is quoted out of context. Embracing and implementing the wishes of the Council is the way to turn this around much like embracing, understanding, and implementing the decrees of the council of Nicea overcame Arianism, even though in the years after the council Arianism grew.

Blessings

[Guest]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jan 4 2005, 02:52 AM'] Maintaining purity is extremely important for someone reponding to a call to the priesthood. There are true calls to the priesthood all the time in the West, but once a young man has become consumed with impurity, whether in lust or vulgarity or pride or vanity, the ability to properly respond to God's call becomes blocked, ignored, forgotten and worst of all damaged to the point that repair of one's soul seems impossible. Small sin spirals deeper and deeper into grave sin; so a young man once called to the priesthood often no longer has the ability to seek or become a pure and holy priest. [/quote]
thats so true

[voiciblanche]

Parents whimp out and drop their kids' Catholic education after first Communion or so. Kids don't grow up Catholic without someone to look up to, and parents lately don't want to be that someone.

[Don John of Austria]

There is also the decided active discouragement of religous life and holy orders coming from those in religious life and Holy orders. I was actively discouraged by 90 % of proiest in pursuit of my vocation and I was actively made war on by about 20% ( because I believed in foolish things like Satan , and Purgatory, and the need for the Sacraments). The Church in america is self destructing because it has no unified belief, The Catholic Church in aAmerica is no longer Catholic in Faith, by that I mean that the Faith is no longer Universal among the clergy oanfd religious, what do we expect to happen.

[mp15]

Couldn't have said it better Don John. The Church in America is self destructing. Only those that are blind to it don't notice. I have been saying as much for the last 5 years.

[thessalonian]

I do see hope on the horizon. 90% of the young priests I know are giving the straight scoop and are much more orthodox than the older priests. Fr. Corapi one time did a poll of his audience in which he asked "How many of you have liturgical abuse going on in your parishes". About 60% raised their hands I believe the number was. Now how many of you have pastors who are older than 60? Most of the same hands went up. Then he asked how many of the ones who did not have liturgical abuse going on in their parishes, how many had priests that were younger than 40 or 45. Can't remember the exact age. Most of those who did not have liturgical abuse had younger priests which would generally be the opposite of what would be expected since people get more conservative as they get older.

It will take time to flush the older, more liberal priests out of the system but in time it will happen. The gates of hell shall not prevail. We can place our hope in these words.

Blessings

[Guest Aluigi]

I don't blame Vatican II, I know it was all in place before and everyone expected the Church to liberalize. when it didn't, the liberals HIJACKED Vatican II and used it to spread their errors.

what I wish is that the Church had taken on the liberals more directly in Vatican II. that's what councils have done throughout the history of the CHurch-- combat heresy. i wish there had been ANATHEMAS pronounced and all that such. then the heterodox would be unable to stay within the Church and try to change it and hijacking the documents of Vatican II to spread an agenda completely outside of the Tradition of the Church.

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Jan 4 2005, 09:19 AM'] Why don't we quit dissing Vatican II.  It was a legitimate Ecumenical Council.  That it was pastoral in nature does not diminish it's legitimacy.  That the decrees of the council were distorted by liberals is not the fault of the council.  I have read much of the councilar and post councilar documents and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them, except when it is quoted out of context.  Embracing and implementing the wishes of the Council is the way to turn this around much like embracing, understanding, and implementing the decrees of the council of Nicea overcame Arianism, even though in the years after the council Arianism grew.

Blessings [/quote]
Who here has doubted the validity of Vatican II? I'm afraid no one has.

I agree with Aluigi. The reason for the significant drop in seminarians and the shattrering of unified belief is a result of the poor implementation of Vatican II.

I totally believe that Vatican II is a legitimate council led by the Holy Spirit.
It's obvious though that the Council underestimated the power of the growing liberal society. No one at the council would have thought that Latin today would be shunned, or that altar rails would be melted or that high altars would be crushed. No one thought that at all.

Under John Paul II, the Vatican has done a wonderful job in making the transition according to the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. We now have a new Mass translation coming out in 2005 which will be a more literal translation of the original Latin text. John Paul has also ruled with an iron fist regarding the Euchartist. He has stated clearly that Holy Communion is the center of our faith and that we must treat the Eucharist with utmost respect.

In my opinion, the Catholic Church is on the rebound since Vatican II. We are gowing! My diocese, the Archdiocese of Galveston/Houston was just named an archdiocese days ago. Catholic schools are being built. Since the scandal in the priesthood, people are starting to realize that we must take our Church back. There are more seminarians this year than 2 years before. Slowly but surely, the Catholic Church will be flourishing with new members, flourishing with priests and nuns, and most of all, flourishing with people who all believe that every aspect of Catholicism is true.

May God Bless!

-conservativecatholic

Edited January 4, 2005 by conservativecatholic

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Saying Vatican II is wrong because of how liberals interpret it is like saying religion is evil because so many horrible rulers used religion to suppress people and justify their actions. Evil rulers will be evil rulers with or without religion and liberals in the Catholic Church would be liberals whether or not Vatican II happened. In fact, as someone said above, Vatican II angered a lot of liberals because it didn't implement the changes they wanted.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 4 2005, 12:07 PM'] I don't blame Vatican II, I know it was all in place before and everyone expected the Church to liberalize. when it didn't, the liberals HIJACKED Vatican II and used it to spread their errors.

what I wish is that the Church had taken on the liberals more directly in Vatican II. that's what councils have done throughout the history of the CHurch-- combat heresy. i wish there had been ANATHEMAS pronounced and all that such. then the heterodox would be unable to stay within the Church and try to change it and hijacking the documents of Vatican II to spread an agenda completely outside of the Tradition of the Church. [/quote]
From my understanding there is good reason why Vatican II did not have anathames attached to it's decrees. The Council was pastoral in nature. It advanced no doctrines to dogma and so did not pronounce anathemas. However, the anathemas from previous councils on that which was dogma from the council still applied. I think this is perhaps where the disconnect is. Anethemas have not gone away.

[MC Just]

Here's a rap i wrote that will make a lot of people angry but oh well the truth hurts and thats the way it is. I say what I say in the rap because it is what i learned from studying about it.

GoodBye, Good Men (wounded)


I can’t stand to see what’s going, OUR Church in this country’s
Harmed, struck by a spiritual bomb, it’s hard to stay calm
When you clearly see the roots to many problems, know how to solve em
But WE’RE told to stay shut and pray for shalom,
WE’RE going to move until WE hit rock bottom
Wage war like anti-biotic to infection OUR church in America is
Infected with a secular pestilence
Orthodoxy is the medicine, the cure from the obscure, outside influences
The nuisance, plaguing our colleges and schools with liberal foolishness
So were wounded, the devil’s got us in his range and he’s zoomed in
Taking shots because he lost, and has nothing to lose, he’s uses politics
Like maze to get people lost in it, he urges man to glorify man, whisper’s God
Don’t exist; therefore we can all just do what we want,
The problems clear but they nonchalant
There own opinions more important than what Jesus taught,
The Faithful’s distraught
Priests caught in scandals, can’t handle fighting sin
Seminaries of hell condemning holy, Righteous men
SOME ARE SCREENED with heretic litmus tests
Orthodox called too rigid, thrown to the bench,
Good-bye, Good men,
While yet they made plenty of room for those who Dissent
The Church is not democracy; Catholics look to the Papal Theocracy
Bound by the cannon laws, many don’t want to hear or see,
They say “I’m catholic but I don’t wear my faith out on my sleeves”
Bad examples from Kennedy up in the 60’s, infiltration, desecration
What a tragedy, blasphemy shocked the nation, with this catastrophe
Liberal dioceses have a shortage of priests, while the orthodox flourish
Nourished by peace, why won’t they see?


Goodbye Good men,


Two generations of Holy men, rejected,
Men who could have been saints and blessed’s
Instead we got left with a bunch of child molesters,
Giving bad names to Priests who really
Rep the faith, yet liberals have the guts to say, what went wrong?
You have no room to talk You’re the ones who brought it on,
Talking tolerance, I say who you following?
Who you following, Mixing the church with devilish doctrines,
Trying change the faith that suppose to remain Constant,
Many men with a genuine calling thrown off by a façade,
Of the heterodox, the radical, squad leaving the church morally robbed,
For the sake of the sexual revolution,
Gay priests and Liturgical abuses, the intrusion,
of the serpent’s movement, talking progress,
But what they represent has proved to be the opposite
And it’s quite obvious, THE LOSS OF COMMON SENSE
Has become quite prominent, attacking celibacy
Saying that’s the cause of it, I hate to disappoint you
But you’re wrong once again, according to this
Reconnaissance, polluted consciousness is a large
Part of it, a mind state contrary to the Catholic Faith
Liberals only seem to perpetrate and exasperate
With vice, moral and doctrinal laxity
It’s sad to see, the hurt families
Of this calamity, some Catholics in America
done Lost their sanity, as the culture of “anything goes”
Consumes soul’s, and makes many churches it’s home
As they stroll away from Rome, and form their own abode
Of no restraint or control A healing’s coming,
an army of Christ’s Holy men Growing in numbers…

[thessalonian]

"Who here has doudted the validity of Vatican II?"

I didn't say anyone had. But statements like this blaming VII are not uncommon.

"Alot of it has to do with Vatican 2. "

And there are alot of ultra traditionalist Catholics (including my brother) who do bash VII and say it was heretical. On the catholicconvert.com board there is a moderator who has a trailer on all his posts "Gee thanks Vatican II". Vatican II is not the problem. The emphasis on education from Vatican II is the solution. It needs to be implemented. I see that happening slowly.

Blessings

Edited January 4, 2005 by thessalonian

[conservativecatholic]

[quote]Rep the faith, yet liberals have the guts to say, what went wrong?
You have no room to talk You’re the ones who brought it on, [/quote]

Right on MC!

I'm not a big fan of rap; however, this is great!

May God Bless!

By the way, is there any music to go along with this or some sort of recording?

This would be awesome for my confirmation class. I'm getting confirmed this June.

[MC Just]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jan 4 2005, 01:04 PM']
Right on MC!

I'm not a big fan of rap; however, this is great!

May God Bless!

By the way, is there any music to go along with this or some sort of recording?

This would be awesome for my confirmation class. I'm getting confirmed this June. [/quote]
This song will be on my album titles "The Cross"

Edited January 4, 2005 by MC Just

[Lil Red]

[quote name='voiciblanche' date='Jan 4 2005, 08:23 AM'] Parents whimp out and drop their kids' Catholic education after first Communion or so. Kids don't grow up Catholic without someone to look up to, and parents lately don't want to be that someone. [/quote]
as a youth minister, you have no idea how many times i hear the phrase "it's not worth the fight to get them to go". if your child's spiritual life, their very soul is not worth the fight, then what is? i'm trying hard to change that attitude, but it's hard....