Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ...when a Catholic (or Christian, or Jewish) clergymen is killed attempting to convert (read: impose his religion upon) others, he's a martyr, but when a Muslim intentionally gives his life for what he believes in, he's a cowardly terrorist?_? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 It depends on what you mean by a Muslim giving himself for what he believes in. If a Muslim dies a "martyr's death" at the risk of killing others such as the 9/11 attempts he is not a martyr but he is a terrorist. If ANYONE dies for his faith because he is persecuted then he is a martyr. THere is a clear difference. If a Catholic clergyman is killed because he is attempting to convert people by killing them or imposing fear or terror (thus the name terrorist) then he is not a martyr. Meg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 So all missionaries are terrorists (Convert or burn eternally, scum!). Thanks, that's all I needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I don't know any Christian missionaries that do that. The missionaries I know of provide essential health, clothing, and food needs in third world countries. They only share the Gospel in words if someone asks. I think you're being rather zealot yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) You're with missionaries who go to Africa and somehow manage to convert them from old-as-dirt pagan religions to Christianity just by giving them clothes and the like? Amazing. Edited January 2, 2005 by Chris Zewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 03:45 PM'] So all missionaries are terrorists (Convert or burn eternally, scum!). Thanks, that's all I needed. [/quote] I agree with Brother Adam... I don't know any missionaries who do that. Alot care for the people Also, I have heard of missionaries who spread the Word. By telling them of Jesus's life. Missionaries do not go forth and say, "CONVERT OR BURN ETERNALLY." They aren't good missionaries if they try to convert people by that method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 [i]Missionaries do not go forth and say, "CONVERT OR BURN ETERNALLY." They aren't good missionaries if they try to convert people by that method. [/i] ...It's more subtle than that. Common sense still appears to be beyond the grasp of this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tink Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) The primary focus of missionaries in Africa and similar countries is to show the love of Christ to people by helping them in their hunger, poverty, and sickness. The next goal is to convert their hearts. All of this, however, is done in LOVE. Perhaps you should research this a bit more, but with any apologist, the first tool is the love of Christ. Never hatred, intolerance, or threatening behavior. Edited January 2, 2005 by Tink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Tink' date='Jan 2 2005, 03:55 PM'] The primary focus of missionaries in Africa and similar countries is to show the love of Christ to people by helping them in their hunger, poverty, and sickness. The next goal is to convert their hearts. All of this, however, is done in LOVE. Perhaps you should research this a bit more, but with any apologist, the first tool is the love of Christ. Never hatred, intolerance, or threatening behavior. [/quote] Define "apologist" before I respond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Being a Martyr, by definition, is to suffer, die, or make great sacrifices for a belief, cause, or principle. So, technically the Muslim terrorists would be 'martyrs'. The thing, though, is that the Muslim's were not converting - they were killing. And while they were brave, I agree, their conviction was totally misplaced and their actions were unfounded. We (Catholics) don't consider them 'martyrs' in the Catholic sense of the term because they were martyrs for another cause, a cause we believe to be false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jan 2 2005, 03:54 PM'] [i]Missionaries do not go forth and say, "CONVERT OR BURN ETERNALLY." They aren't good missionaries if they try to convert people by that method. [/i] ...It's more subtle than that. Common sense still appears to be beyond the grasp of this board... [/quote] With all due respect, how do missionaries protray the "convert or burn eternally" message in their work? Please explain how this is done because I do not see how this is common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 [i]Being a Martyr, by definition, is to suffer, die, or make great sacrifices for a belief, cause, or principle. So, technically the Muslim terrorists would be 'martyrs'. The thing, though, is that the Muslim's were not converting - they were killing. And while they were brave, I agree, their conviction was totally misplaced and their actions were unfounded.[/i] They're giving their lives because they believe that they're helping rid their homeland of non-believers. I fail to see how that isn't a great cause, at least in their minds. [i]We (Catholics) don't consider them 'martyrs' in the Catholic sense of the term because they were martyrs for another cause, a cause we believe to be false. [/i] Yes, I understand that, but no one does except other Muslims living in the Middle East and a scant few elsewhere. And hey, I remember you from before I was banned... [i]With all due respect, how do missionaries protray the "convert or burn eternally" message in their work?[/i] That's what Christianity is, dear. You either believe and spend eternity singing songs of praise in heaven, or you burn in hell for not believing. How do they NOT portray it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tink Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 ok, perhaps that is incorrect terminology, but to my knowledge an apologist is one who defends and/or preaches the faith. I should have been more clear. In ANYONE who shares the faith, defends it, or otherwise speaks for it, there should be an unfailing presence of LOVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 It is Catholic teaching that you won't be saved (barring extreme... yadda yadda yadda) unless you convert and are baptised. So techincally, the message of missionaries really is 'convert or burn'. Of course, when you put it into the terms 'convert or burn eternally' it gives the impression that the missionaries were threatening, heartless jerks - which simply is not the case. Its a little too simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Zewe Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:10 PM'] It is Catholic teaching that you won't be saved (barring extreme... yadda yadda yadda) unless you convert and are baptised. So techincally, the message of missionaries really is 'convert or burn'. Of course, when you put it into the terms 'convert or burn eternally' it gives the impression that the missionaries were threatening, heartless jerks - which simply is not the case. Its a little too simplistic. [/quote] I know, but if I used the terms those cold, calculating, missionaries used, you'd never see my point. Yes children, that was a hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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