Lil Red Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 we are winning, according to Fr. Frank Pavone. the whole 40 days for Life thing has been a huge success (i think they're at day 22 or 23). PP and its cohorts are going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstrycula Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 A.M.D.G. May Our Lord have mercy on us and may He end abortion. I ask this request through the intercession the Holy Family and all through all those little children who have been aborted. P.S. Go mulls!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Wy are loads of old threads resurfacing? I'm getting confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Well, Lil Red brought this one out of the depths... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S][N Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I'm not completely against abortion, but that story is disgusting. Why hasn't anything been done against that cult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) yeah this story seriously makes me feel bad... I wonder how often people have abortions....why dont people consider the alternative (adoption)? I remember back in high school we had a debate on this topic....in a case where a woman is going to die while giving birth...is it ok to have an abortion? Our teacher said that in a case like this the woman must sacrifice her life for the child. And he pointed out that there is no grounds for abortion. It is always wrong. This is a good debate in my opinion because there is more that meets the eye. You have to consider how many people will experience grief because of the death of the pregant woman vs. how many people will experience grief because of the death of the baby. I think in most situations more people would be effected by the loss of the pregnant woman rather than the baby. I dont think this dilema justifies abortion, but it makes the decision very difficult. Another dilemma might arise when someone is raped and got pregnant because of it. Still doesnt justify abortion. Edited October 19, 2007 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S][N Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Good points Infinite. Imo Rape, incest, death of the mother are the situations thus far I find myself seeing abortion as a neccessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 [quote name='S][N' post='1405271' date='Oct 19 2007, 12:20 PM'] Good points Infinite. Imo Rape, incest, death of the mother are the situations thus far I find myself seeing abortion as a neccessary evil.[/quote] Why should a child be killed for the crime of its father? Abortion can't undo rape or abuse. It just inflicts another wound. I don't say this lightly. I have a good friend who was sexually abused as a child and young teenager by the leader of her Scout troop. When she was fourteen he got her pregnant. Then punched her in the stomach to force a miscarriage. Naturally enough, she got very ill in her mind as a result of the abuse and spent nearly two years in a psychiatric hospital. (Until she tried to kill herself no one in her family knew about her mental health difficulties or about the rapes, although her doctor had started to suspect anorexia.) She was discharged in April. Now she has been having casual sex with total strangers, which to me looked like a strange 'choice' for a girl who is still terrified of men - until she thought that she had managed to get pregnant, and was jubilant over it. She's sixteen now. She still thinks about the baby her rapist killed. She thinks she is partly responsible for the death. She wants another chance. What she is doing is illogical but not unreasonable. Even in such a perilous mental state, even after years of rape, she was aware that unborn life mattered and she would like to make some sort of restitution for that life, even though it wasn't her fault at all and nothing can be done anyway. Abortion is not a just solution for girls and women in that situation. I would never presume to judge them for having one, as I know what abuse looks and feels and smells like. It's not always possible to make shining moral choices when you're hurting that much. But if anything, the birth of a new human being - his or her [i]own person[/i], not just the product of the rapist father - is the greatest triumph a survivor of rape can possibly have. Abortion can't offer that. I don't know if you've ever heard the testimony of Pam Stenzl, a woman who was conceived as a result of rape. Her birth mother arranged for her to be adopted. Pam regularly speaks at pro-life events, not as a judge for women who have had abortions, but as a daughter who is deeply and humbly grateful for her mother's courage. That is what the pro-life movement is all about: gratitude for life in all circumstances and at all times, no matter how bleak and desperate the situation may look at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S][N Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It doesn't really matter what I believe in the end, it's important that, that choice is available for people that find themselves in that type of situation. And it's important that choice be available. People need to understand not everyone goes by your set of morality rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Holy Rosary Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 [quote name='S][N' post='1405282' date='Oct 19 2007, 06:39 AM'] It doesn't really matter what I believe in the end, it's important that, that choice is available for people that find themselves in that type of situation. And it's important that choice be available. People need to understand not everyone goes by your set of morality rules.[/quote] I noticed that you referred to abortion as (on occasion) a necessary evil. Do you feel it is evil because it is cruel? If not then why do you feel it is evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S][N Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 [quote name='Knight of the Holy Rosary' post='1405297' date='Oct 19 2007, 07:16 AM']I noticed that you referred to abortion as (on occasion) a necessary evil. Do you feel it is evil because it is cruel? If not then why do you feel it is evil?[/quote] It's evil because it has the ability to destroy lives, the fetus' and the mothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uruviel Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1404987' date='Oct 18 2007, 06:08 PM']we are winning, according to Fr. Frank Pavone. the whole 40 days for Life thing has been a huge success (i think they're at day 22 or 23). PP and its cohorts are going down.[/quote] Yeah! I've been doing the 40 days for life here in Texas, it's an amazing thing, a wonderful concept, and such a simple way of pleading for the babies lives. I am really proud of the people who stand long hours in front of the PP buildings, I know we are making a difference with every prayer and every hour. God Bless them. And I love Fr. Pavone. I haven't heard him speaking about the 40 days for life though this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 [quote name='S][N' post='1405282' date='Oct 19 2007, 01:39 PM'] It doesn't really matter what I believe in the end, it's important that, that choice is available for people that find themselves in that type of situation. And it's important that choice be available. People need to understand not everyone goes by your set of morality rules.[/quote] Not everyone believes that genocide is wrong, either. Yet I oppose it and presumably you would support me in opposing it. I will defend the right to life in all circumstances, because peace begins in the womb and if there is no peace there we can have no lasting peace anywhere. It is also difficult to see abortion as a choice, especially when so many of the women who terminate a pregnancy do so because they feel they have no choice. Women deserve better than abortion. [quote name='S][N' post='1405305' date='Oct 19 2007, 02:50 PM'] It's evil because it has the ability to destroy lives, the fetus' and the mothers.[/quote] Should people be allowed to 'choose' something that destroys life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) [quote name='God Conquers' post='3835' date='Jul 10 2003, 06:50 PM']We all know that the real battleground on moral issues is the siritual one. We know that the only way Satan can attack God is by attacking His image, man. We know that ion the past 100 years he has found a new method, genocide. We know that within the past 30 years he found the best, silent, accepted form of genocide, abortion. This is all well and good. We think that Satan is simply quietly influencing politics, and using temptations to continue the rape of our generation. There aren't any real, substantial, satanic influences resulting from this industry. Until now. A very good friend of mine works for a pro-life lobby group in Canada. He is extremely reliable, as is the person who related to him the following story: This man (my friend's friend) wages spiritual warfare outside of abortuaries. One day, he was praying the rosary, watching women walk in to the mill. One young lady, as if sensing his presence across the street (in Canada it is illegal to pray in front of clinics), or seeing him out of the corner of her eye, about to walk in, turned towards him and began screaming obsenities at the top of her lungs. She approached him as he prayed silently, not wanting to move, and began ranting ever louder. He prayed for her and was able to talk to her briefly and hear her story. It is shocking: The woman is 16 years old. She was going into the clinic for her SIXTH abortion. She is a member of a cult. The men of the cult have sexual relations with the women, making them pregnant. The then get an abortion. The aborted baby is offered up as a sacrifice....... to Satan. This story is true. It is horrifying. It demonstrates the incredible danger of abortion to our society and the importance of this industry of death to the devil. He uses it directly in the war which he wages on God through us. A war he WILL lose, but a war in which we must redouble our efforts, for the loss of life in this war is measured not by years, but eternally.[/quote] I read a story on this about four or five years ago. I think I posted something about it on the old board here. I just googled: cult "child sacrifice" abortion [url="http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&q=cult+%22child+sacrifice%22+abortion+"]http://www.google.com/search?num=100&h...ce%22+abortion+[/url] 666 results. Coincidence? I think not. Edited October 22, 2007 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S][N Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1406637' date='Oct 21 2007, 03:49 PM']Not everyone believes that genocide is wrong, either. Yet I oppose it and presumably you would support me in opposing it. I will defend the right to life in all circumstances, because peace begins in the womb and if there is no peace there we can have no lasting peace anywhere. It is also difficult to see abortion as a choice, especially when so many of the women who terminate a pregnancy do so because they feel they have no choice. Women deserve better than abortion. Should people be allowed to 'choose' something that destroys life?[/quote] Genocide and abortion are close but different due to the situations which can surround them. Genocide has NO justification, it's merely a weapon of war, politics and hatred. Abortion can be (imo) a justified use in special and strict circumstances. A woman that goes out partying and gets herself pregnant and doesn't want it, is not a justification, and any woman that uses abortion for those reasons is disgusting. That type of abuse of abortion I am against. Not all women are victims of peer pressure, stress from thinking if she doesn't get rid of it the husband will dump her etc. This is a used up line. "because peace begins in the womb and if there is no peace there we can have no lasting peace anywhere." How so? Sound like you just copied that from a Pro-Life book or pamphlet(sp?) and have no real understand of it's meaning. --- "Should people be allowed to 'choose' something that destroys life?" If it can save a life, not just physically, but mentally, Yes. Edited October 22, 2007 by S][N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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