Self-mortification

[mulls]

ok, the thread about opus dei is scaring the heck out of me, because of the self mortification stuff. i meant to ask about this a long time ago.

Please explain what the deal is with self-mortification.

You believe that by inflicting pain on yourself, or living uncomfortably in some way, will bring you closer to God?

I have further questions, but I will wait for some responses first.

Edited October 18, 2003 by mulls

[JP2Iloveyou]

In a nutshell. It's not quite that simple, but St. Paul says, "Through my sufferings, I complete what is lacking in the suffering of Christ." Christ asks us to fast and do penance for our sins. Now, this does not mean to break an arm on purpose or anything. It may mean skipping a meal one day a week and donating the money you would have spent on that meal to the poor. The pain of our hunger should remind us of the great pain Christ suffered during the Crucifixion.

St. Francis of Assisi was known to jump into a rose bush when he was tempted against chastity. The pain made him stop thinking impure thoughts because he had to think about the pain.

Other acts of penance include small things such as taking a cold shower instead of a warm one, kneeling without a cushion during prayer, or giving up something you enjoy like a favorite T.V. show or food.

I'm not sure if that answers your question or not. Let me know.

[Anna]

As humans, we can use our senses in ways that are pleasing to God, or in ways that offend God.

Gluttony, Lust, Stealing, Murder, Adultery, Lying...

By mortifying our senses, we can bring them more in line with Christ...who gave up His very life for us.

We don't have to leave scars or bruises on our bodies. But offering to God some simple inconvenience or discomfort can and does give us a much greater appreciation for how very much Jesus suffered for our sins.

It gives us a greater insight as to how deeply sin wounds the soul, and it's a way we can show Jesus how much we want to be like Him.

It may be more fulfilling to volunteer at a soup kitchen, etc., but who wants to suffer?

Pax Christi. <><

[Cure of Ars]

This is the basic concept:

Therefore, since Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same attitude (for whoever suffers in the flesh has broken with sin), so as not to spend what remains of one's life in the flesh on human desires, but on the will of God. (1 Peter 4:1-2)

Like anything it can be taken too far and not be a good thing. Fasting is one type of self-mortification that is in the Bible and most if not all Protestants don't have a problem with this.

[Norseman82]

Well, from what I've seen in Opus Dei, the big emphasis on mortification came from the people who've led comfortable suburban lives and childhoods, so they probably feel that they haven't suffered in life and have a need to make up for it....for others, though, life itself is enough mortification, they don't need to add any more sufferring to it (like a battered wife or an abused kid or someone dealing with a family member with substance abuse problems).

But I saved an article that appeared in the New World (Chicago archdiocesan newspaper) on March 7, 1999. On page 4, Fr. William Stetson, the vicar for Opus Dei in Chicago, is quoted: "'If you've got three kids and you're getting up in the middle of the night with them, you don't need mortification,' he laughed". I've met fr. Stetson, and I'm of the opinion that the Opus Dei priests in general are more level-headed and grounded in reality than some of the Opus Dei members I was very close to.

[cmotherofpirl]

Giving up small things is good practice for when we must give up large things.

[BLAZEr]

Well, from what I've seen in Opus Dei, the big emphasis on mortification came from the people who've led comfortable suburban lives and childhoods, so they probably feel that they haven't suffered in life and have a need to make up for it....for others, though, life itself is enough mortification, they don't need to add any more sufferring to it (like a battered wife or an abused kid or someone dealing with a family member with substance abuse problems).

But I saved an article that appeared in the New World (Chicago archdiocesan newspaper) on March 7, 1999.  On page 4, Fr. William Stetson, the vicar for Opus Dei in Chicago,  is quoted:  "'If you've got three kids and you're getting up in the middle of the night with them, you don't need mortification,' he laughed".  I've met fr. Stetson, and I'm of the opinion that the Opus Dei priests in general are more level-headed and grounded in reality than some of the Opus Dei members I was very close to.

LOL . . . that reminds me of my Spiritual Director who told me once about my boss who I wanted to make mortification for to help him grow in holiness "Working for him is penance enough." LOL . . .

[BLAZEr]

ok, the thread about opus dei is scaring the heck out of me, because of the self mortification stuff. i meant to ask about this a long time ago.

Please explain what the deal is with self-mortification.

You believe that by inflicting pain on yourself, or living uncomfortably in some way, will bring you closer to God?

I have further questions, but I will wait for some responses first.

We don't think that the pain in and of itself brings us closer to God, we believe that it is a way to train your body to be more spiritually disposed.

I'm sure you, as a non-Catholic, have heard of fasting? Fasting is a way to teach our body to hunger for God, to not delight in earthly goods, but to look for the spiritual nourishment we need. Fasting also brings you closer to God in prayer right?

Well, small corporal mortifications do the same thing: Sleeping without a pillow brings you closer to the God "who had nowhere to lay his head" Putting a small stone in your show reminds you that "you walk with Christ to Golgotha" . . .

We don't advocate pain without a purpose . . . like whipping yourself just cuz you think you're bad . . . wrong way to do a mortification!

However, if you wear a hair shirt to help you focus on the discomfort of the clothes rather than the lust in your heart . . . that's a good thing . . .

Am I making sense?

[cmotherofpirl]

LOL . . . that reminds me of my Spiritual Director who told me once about my boss who I wanted to make mortification for to help him grow in holiness "Working for him is penance enough." LOL . . .

Its like spending time in Yahoo Catholic chat on the weekends,

we consider time off of purgatory.

[littleflower+JMJ]

Its like spending time in Yahoo Catholic chat on the weekends,

we consider time off of purgatory.

yahoo chat.

ouch.

i know what ya mean!

:blink:

[cmotherofpirl]

Information on mortification from the Catholic Encyclopedia

One of the methods which Christian ascesticism employs in training the soul to virtuous and holy living.

The term originated with St. Paul, who traces an instructive analogy between Christ dying to a mortal and rising to an immortal life, and His followers who renounce their past life of sin and rise through grace to a new life of holiness.

"If you live after the flesh", says the apostle, "you shall die, but if through the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live" (Rom., viii, 13; cf. also Col., iii, 5, and Gal., v, 24).

Temptations to sin it overcomes by inducing the will to accept hardships, however grace, rather than yield to the temptations.

To this extent, mortification is obligatory on all, but those who wish to be more thorough in the service of Christ, carry it further, and strive with its aid to subdue, so far as is possible in this life, that "rebellion" of the flesh against the spirit which is the internal incentive to sin.

...Mortification, viewed thus as a means of curing bad habits and implanting good ones, has its recognized place in the methods even of those who are engaged in pursuing purely natural ends.

What is peculiar to Christian mortification is, that it relies for the attainment of its spiritual objects, not merely on this natural efficacy of its methods, but still more on the aids of divine grace, for which, by its earnestness in self-discipline and the Christian motive which inspires it, it can plead so powerfully with God.

...And here, as further contributing to increase it spiritual efficacy, another motive for which it is practiced comes in.

It is practiced likewise as an expiation for past sins and shortcomings, for it is the belief of the Catholic Church, that, although only the Atonement of Christ can offer adequate expiation for the sins of men, men ought not to make that an excuse for doing nothing themselves, but should rather take it as an incentive to add their own expiations to the extent of their power, and should regard such personal expiations as very pleasing to God.

[cmotherofpirl]

from EWTN:

What is meant by the term daily bodily mortification? Is it a sin?

Answer by Fr. John Trigilio on 04-13-2002:

No, unless done to extremes. Bodily mortification is merely a penance voluntarily imposed on the body, like kneeling on a hard stone or wood floor instead of a cushioned kneeler; like fasting and abstinence in Lent; like wearing an uncomfortable shirt or pair of shoes and offering up the discomfort. It is NEVER to be seen as PAIN for the sake of pain. Whenever there is any danger or possibility of physical INJURY or serious DAMAGE to the body, it then becomes SINFUL. Fanatics who whip themselves until they bleed and almost pass out are going to extremes. Someone who occasionally wears a hairshirt, however, is merely doing bodily mortification. ALL PENANCE SHOULD BE FIRST APPROVED BY ONE'S CONFESSOR OR SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR. Obedience is better than mortification. We live in a pain-less society insofar as any discomfort is to be avoided at all cost. Pop a pill instead of trying to endure and offer it up seems more humane and compassionate to many people. And yet, we are morally permitted to give a dying person plenty of painkillers to make them comfortable just so long as the medicine does not cause or hasten death. No one is obligated or encouraged to suffer physical pain but one can voluntarily endure some physical discomfort as a means of penance and mortification. But again, even the saints and doctors of the church agree, GET PERMISSION FIRST or don't do it. The danger of going too far or of inflicting serious injury demands that one get PRUDENT ADVICE. I have a colleague who one night a month sleeps on the floor as a penance. He does not do it every night nor even every week. Once a month as a penance. I know someone else who does not sleep with a pillow during Lent. Small mortifications to be sure, but remember the words of the Little Flower, Saint Therese, who said, "little things, done well, done often and done out of love mean more to God than anything else." Hence, the severe bread and water fasting for a week or more is NOT advisable. Drinking a cup of black coffee once in a while when you normally have it with cream and sugar is a good one.

[Katholikos]

St. Paul practiced mortification:

"Do you not know that in a race, all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. Well, I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified" 1 Cor 9:24-27 RSV.

The purpose of mortification is to subdue the body and liberate the soul. The Saints are witnesses to the fact that it works.

[Aloysius]

?

where is the line drawn between self-mortification and self-mutilation?

am i right to say that self-mortification should not have any lasting effects on your God-given body?

[Norseman82]

Personally, I don't believe in mortification as much as I do in self-denial. What should be accomplished is not physical pain, but weaning ourselves away from our dependence on things of this world - something that is in fact MUCH harder than whipping yourself.