dairygirl4u2c Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 (edited) In response to cmother I was basically going to say what Don said. And I will respond to this. [quote]Tradition does not speak on this particular case. [/quote] It's not us saying the government is corrupt; it's the Catholic Church. Its tradition says that abortion is wrong. It says that wars can be justified. I don't see a difference between an abortion just war and others. The only difference I might be able to see is that you might think it's somewhat understandable what the pro-choice argument says. Actually, I bet ninty percent of the people here really know what it says (they usually don't make themselves very clear). But I know that most of you think that it's illogical to fathom understanding the prochoice arguement at all. So it seems like all the criteria are present. I have a few more points to make but I will let this play out first. For now, how is this any different than any other Just war? Edited December 31, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 31 2004, 03:45 PM'] What qualifies you to decide if the government is corrupt or not? [/quote] If the government is not governing by the will of the people and the government does more harm then good according to the natural law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote]If the government is not governing by the will of the people and the government does more harm then good according to the natural law. [/quote] I like that.. Now let me work that into the equation here. I'll be back after the New Years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookwyrm Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 You have to think about going to war in the context of our society. The liberals already see us as crazy, ignorant, unenlightened barbarians; declaring physical war on them would hardly ameliorate the situation. Don't get me wrong; we ARE ALREADY at war. It's a spiritual war. What's wrong with that? Why can't that be just as powerful and effective? If it were God's will, of course I would be willing to fight that His will might be done. I just find it hard to believe that He would choose to act through us in such a way. We want to convert them, to convince them we're right, not to eliminate them. Going to war is not a long-term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 that's the way he usually acts (through war) God is un-enlightened too lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Dec 31 2004, 05:14 PM'] I have a few more points to make but I will let this play out first. For now, how is this any different than any other Just war? [/quote] There are other ways to stop this, which is part of the Just War Doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='Theoketos' date='Dec 31 2004, 05:14 PM'] If the government is not governing by the will of the people and the government does more harm then good according to the natural law. [/quote] I believe our government allows a great deal of harm to occur. However, the good from it outweighs the harm. Look at ancient Rome. I do not want to belittle this situation, but they were still a just government after killing God. Talk about major crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiciblanche Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 May I have an example of a just war (one that's already occured) so that I may put this into perspective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Us going to war with Germany was probably just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiciblanche Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='Q the Ninja' date='Jan 1 2005, 03:28 AM'] Us going to war with Germany was probably just. [/quote] Anybody have more than that, and possibly without a "probably"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 [quote]If the government is not governing by the will of the people and the government does more harm then good according to the natural law. [/quote] A govenment must govern in accordance with the ordancances of God not the People, the will of the people is meaningless unless it coniciders with the will of God. [quote]Tradition does not speak on this particular case. [/quote] No it speaks on what makes a Government Corrupt and unjust, it is Called useing Church teaching in your intellectual life-- it is really an amazing thing, that some off us who disagree with you can read and reason I know but beleve it or not we can, the Church doen't have to speak on every case of adultery or murder, or theft, the teachings of the Church on those matters allow us to determine when one is being done, likewise the teachings of the Church allow us to determine ifa State is unjust, or is corrupt, and is therefore legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 The Crusades where Just wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 the Crusades were just WWII was just (except the A-bomb part, but what are you goin to do?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiciblanche Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 1 2005, 01:45 PM'] the Crusades were just WWII was just (except the A-bomb part, but what are you goin to do?) [/quote] Hmm. Well, in that case, it would seem that a war on abortion would be a just war. The question (for me, anyway) is if it's neccesary at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 perhaps we should mass-riot first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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