Irish National Sovereignty

[Guest Aluigi]

I think that is sad and I think they are only loyalists because they're sick of the violence, and people like the Real IRA don't help that much. 2% of the Republic is the "Church of Ireland" and the Catholic Government there is anything but oppressive. Maybe we need some good British politicians too who try to get the people of Northern Ireland to want a united Ireland. I bet the British people could get behind a guy like that, considering it would save Britain money and what you said about the English love for the Irish Nation. we need to reawaken the cause in the hearts of Catholics and convince the protestants it wouldn't be too bad. actually, maybe even convert the protestants!

If there was a growing movement in Texas with support in Mexico for Texas to rejoin Mexico, I wouldn't oppose it that much. It just needs to take control of Texas politically and then bye bye Texas. I believe this is a much more plausible scenario for Northern Ireland than it would be for Texas, but oh well. Anyway, I'm not really much of a protestant/secular-nation's-manifest-destiny believer .

anyway, those two were just the first two i felt like mentioning. they're some of the most recent English Heroes I know of, and G.K. Chesterton was actually an influence on Michael Collins!

let me rephrase: i don't like loyalism, simply because I don't like that the map of the Republic of Ireland is missing a section in my signature.

obedient: to HUMANAE VITAE. Go make babies while protestants contracept and we'll take over the world!!!

Edited January 10, 2005 by Aluigi

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 11 2005, 12:53 AM'] I bet the British people could get behind a guy like that, considering it would save Britain money and what you said about the English love for the Irish Nation.  we need to reawaken the cause in the hearts of Catholics and convince the protestants it wouldn't be too bad. [/quote]
Hmm, I still like going to visit relatives and still being in the UK. Besides, Euros are monopoly money

I think if it were inculturated more that Britain is not simply one identity, we would be a lot better off. It's possible to be English and British, it's possible to be Scottish and British, it's possible to be Welsh and British, it's possible to be Pakistani and British, and it's possible also to be Irish and British too. Besides, the British are less corrupt according to Transparency International (joint 11th compared with joint 18th for the US and the Republic). Maybe we could help out....

Edited January 10, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]And speaking of Texas, when is the USA going to give back Texas to Mexico? After all, you invaded it and took it over and have been persecuting mexicans all this time bla bla bla[/quote]

If you are going to start throughing around history you should get it right, The Us did not invade mexixco and take int from the mexicans, there was a revolution by protestants who wanted slaves but where actual Mexican citizens, they made there own country and where independent of the United States for about ten years before debt forced them to agree to annexation.

[Ellenita]

[quote]By the way, you think that the IRA have any chance of actually using the guns anymore? If there was a major strike on the mainland by the IRA, all Tony Blair has to do is stand up and say "we are at war with terrorism". You think that the American people will disagree with it? you seriously think the Bush administration will support terrorist acts against it's closest ally after 9/11?[/quote]

Do you really think this RandomProddy? It wouldn't serve Bush at all to alienate his own electorate, many of whom do not equate the IRA with any form of terrorism. Blair is an ally only as long as it serves Bush's purpose, and granted the argument might also be made vice vesa!

Remember a huge amount of funding for the IRA when they were actively planting bombs came from the US.

You may argue I'm being very cynical.....but then I remember another thread here on the same topic where people argued it was perfectly justifiable to plant a bomb in a shopping centre and blow us to bits just because we were born in Britain.....in fact it so disturbed me that Christians should take this view that I've only posted at Phatmass once since.

[Guest Aluigi]

MorphRC is gone (though Phatmasser777 seems to be oddly familiar but I have no evidence to accuse him of being MorphRC, just reminds me of him)

[Phatmasser777]

[quote]RandomProd: Oh, come on, it's not like we have fangs and eat babies.. [/quote]

I dont know, Ive seen a few of you ugly buggers

[Phatmasser777]

The brits have been trying to get the IRA on the same level as 9-11 and Al-Qaeda, just for the sake of US Support, but the US has a MASSIVE Irish Republican base, one that showed its true power back in 1996-97, when Clinton pretty much ignored the UK PM on inviting Sinn Fein to the US.

[Noel's angel]

by the way Phatmasser 777, the provisionals may be on an official caesefire, but that hasn't stopped them killing people. bit of a useless ceasefire then, Yes?

Edited January 12, 2005 by Noel's angel

[Noel's angel]

'Our day will come.' since when were you an Irish republican?

[Noel's angel]

Provisional IRA's history of violence

The Provisional IRA was formed in late 1969, when it split from the Marxist-inclined Official IRA. Since then, its roll-call of violence includes:

March 1971: Attack at Ligoniel: Three soldiers killed.

July 1972: Bloody Friday. Series of blasts across Belfast. Nine killed, many more injured as 22 bombs go off.

July 1972: Ten die in bomb attack in County Derry.

October 1974: Guildford pub bombing on British mainland. Five die, 44 injured.

November 1974: Birmingham pub bombings. 19 dead, 182 injured.

December 1975: Balcombe Street siege. Four IRA gunmen take a couple hostage after a street gun battle in London, surrendering after six days.

February 1978: Firebomb at hotel in Co Down. Twelve people killed, 23 injured.

November 1978: Deputy governor of Crumlin Road prison, Albert Miles, shot dead.



Wreckage of Lord Mountbatten's boat after the IRA bomb
August 1979: Lord Mountbatten, the Queen's uncle, and three others killed by Provisional IRA bomb in County Sligo. The same day, 18 soldiers killed in bomb attack at Warrenpoint, County Down.

November 1981: Ulster Unionist MP for Belfast South, Robert Bradford, murdered.

July 1982: Two bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park, London. In Hyde Park, two members of the Household Cavalry and seven horses die. In Regent's Park, six soldiers from the Royal Green Jackets killed.

December 1983: Harrods bomb. Five people killed and 80 wounded in a blast during Christmas shopping at the West London department store.

October 1984: Brighton bomb. Huge blast at the Grand Hotel, during the Conservative Party conference. Five die. Among the injured: the Cabinet minister Norman Tebbit and his wife.

November 1987: Consignment of 150 tons of weapons and ammunition destined for the IRA intercepted on the French coaster Eksund.

November 1989: Enniskillen massacre. Remembrance Day parade in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. Blast kills 11 people, injures 63.

September 1989: Deal bombing. Ten Royal Marines bandsmen are killed and 22 are injured when base in Deal, Kent, bombed.

July 1990: Ian Gow, Conservative MP for Eastbourne and former Northern Ireland minister, killed by bomb at his Sussex home.



Police clear Whitehall after the mortar attack
February 1991: Three mortar bombs launched from across Whitehall at Downing Street during a Cabinet meeting. One explodes in the garden, but nobody injured.

January 1992: Eight Protestant builders killed by a bomb on their way to work at an Army base near Omagh.

December 1992: Series of IRA bombs throughout the province culminates in a blast in east Belfast which injures 27.

March 1993: An IRA bomb hits Saturday shoppers in Warrington, Cheshire. Two children, Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry, killed.

April 1993: IRA bomb in the City of London causes £350 million of damage.

October 1993: Blast at a fish and chip shop on the Protestant Shankill Road, Belfast, kills 10 people, including two children.

February 1995: Massive bomb at Canary Wharf in east London ends the IRA ceasefire that had been running since August 1994.

[Noel's angel]

The Provisional IRA's activities have included bombings, assassinations, kidnappings, so-called 'punishment beatings', robberies and extortion. Previous targets have included the British military, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, and Loyalist militants--against whom PIRA gunmen and bombers fought a guerrilla war.

PIRA has also targeted British Government officials, Unionist politicians and civilians in both Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Many Protestant civilians were killed in secterian attacks in Northern Ireland, whilst many British civilians were killed during the IRA bombing campaign in England, which was principaly directed against civilian targets such as shops and pubs, including against civilian targets of an economic significance.

Also many Catholic civilians have been killed by PIRA in Northern Ireland for alleged "collaboration" with the British security forces (i.e. the military or RUC). The IRA has also summarily "executed" or otherwise punished suspected drug dealers and other suspected criminals in the past, sometimes after kangaroo trials. IRA members suspected of being British or Irish government informers were also executed, often after interrogation and torture and a kangaroo trial.

Members of the Garda Síochána (the Republic of Ireland's police force) have also been killed; [b]most notorious was the killing of Detective Garda Gerry McCabe, who was shot and killed after the commencement of the PIRA ceasefire.[/b]PIRA bombing campaigns have been conducted against rail and London Underground (subway) stations, pubs and shopping areas on the island of Great Britain, and a British military facility on Continental Europe.

It has recently been claimed that elements of the PIRA have been involved in a spate of bank robberies throughout the island of Ireland, allegedly to build up funds to 'pension off' PIRA members and so facilitate disbandment.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Noel's angel

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 12 2005, 11:46 AM'] by the way Phatmasser 777, the provisionals may be on an official caesefire, but that hasn't stopped them killing people. bit of a useless ceasefire then, Yes? [/quote]
They've killed Drug Dealers, and hardcore criminals, that was never apart of the ceasefire agreement, the Ceasefire means the IRA has decided to stop attacking British/RUC/PSNI, collaborators with the british, for the time being. Drug Dealers are outside the agreement.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 12 2005, 11:49 AM'] 'Our day will come.' since when were you an Irish republican? [/quote]
Mum is Irish .

[Phatmasser777]

God I hate it when you ppl just paste a bunch of junk without a source, on this.

[url="http://irishrepublicanarmy.info/IRA.html"]http://irishrepublicanarmy.info/IRA.html[/url]

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[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 13 2005, 07:57 AM'] They've killed Drug Dealers, and hardcore criminals, that was never apart of the ceasefire agreement, the Ceasefire means the IRA has decided to stop attacking British/RUC/PSNI, collaborators with the british, for the time being. Drug Dealers are outside the agreement. [/quote]
Ah, a classic example of a group that it it's own judge, jury and executioner. How on earth do you think that is just?

You still really didn't answer the question on why the Northern Irish people should join the Republic. For example:[list]
[*]According to Transparency International, the British government (at 11th) is less corrupt than the Irish government (at 18th). Why should a part of the UK go from being ruled by a less corrupt one to a more corrupt one?
[*]The EU, which the UK and the Republic are both part of, is often criticized as unaccountable and corrupt. Given that the UK has it's own independent currency and economic powers which the Irish government does not have, how can you be sure that the interests of Northern Ireland will be served by surrendering more power to the EU?
[/list]