RandomProddy Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 [quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 9 2005, 04:29 AM'] Its the historical that matters, the POBLACHT NA H EIREANN THIS IS IRELAND. Not 26 here and 6 there. [/quote] I suppose this is the failing of the modern republican movement, the triumph of ideology over reality, rationality and pragmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 the english need to follow in the footsteps of G.K. Chesterton (who actually was a bit of an influence on Michael Collins, interestingly enough) and Hillaire Belloc, my two favorite englishmen of all time. They both believed in a sovereign Ireland they were of course Catholic as well! anyway, my analogy to Texas and Maryland isn't population-wise, but simply idealogically. Texas isn't the perfect example, but it's the best one from the U.S. and there is that common saying that Ireland is the Texas of Europe. anyway, Ireland needs to be a wary member of the E.U. is what I'm saying. The annexation of Texas contained a special clause giving Texas the right to leave the Union if it ever chose to. Ireland should keep that option open and feasable as well. It shouldn't become a Maryland, who originally had for their official state religion CATHOLOCISM (states had religions it was the federal government that could not), but no longer. (MARY-land ) Ireland must refuse to loose its Catholic identity. That was what I meant with the Texas comment and such. Many people remark that the E.U. is remarkably similar in form to the U.S. in the begining. but it appears to be more and more centralizing the power forming a federal government of the european u.s. that has legislative and economic power, slowly dissolving states rights (states that should be sovereign seperate nations IMHO) There are still Irish American sympathizers with the IRA, there always have been. Even after 911, they see the IRA as just a bit different, maybe because they agree with them I guess. As far as I'm concerned, it was a necessary and just cause in the begining, no one can deny that there was much persecution of Catholics first in all of Ireland and then just in Northern Ireland. The Provisional IRA was formed to counteract british persecution. It did that until 1997 it chose to come to a ceasefire. I think that is a very prudent action and I agree with the leadership of the IRA. I agree with the founders, and I agree with the leaders now basically. But the cause of a united Ireland shouldn't be abandoned, the war is at ceasefire and I see this as a NEGOTIATION period. Sure, it's not traditional negotiating, because it's a political fight and not a discussion between like ambassadors. But if the political branch succeeds, it will be the people of Northern Ireland choosing to join the Republic. Frankly, I think the only people that would be upset would be the loyalists. Britain, IMHO, would be all too happy to get rid of Northern Ireland, it's too much trouble for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote]annexation of Texas contained a special clause giving Texas the right to leave the Union if it ever chose to. [/quote] Yes it did but I will remind you of what heppened when the Texas tried to excercise that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmasser777 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 9 2005, 02:12 PM'] Oh my goodness, Phatmasser777, u have such an attitude problem. i know more about my country than you will ever know and i DO NOT appreciate being called ignorant, if you have nothing productive to say, dont say anything at all [/quote] No you dont. You dont even know the basics, infact I dont even think you live in Eire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmasser777 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jan 9 2005, 02:18 PM'] They are terrorists. End of story. It's exactly the same reason the UDA are being forced to disband. By the way, you think that the IRA have any chance of actually using the guns anymore? If there was a major strike on the mainland by the IRA, all Tony Blair has to do is stand up and say "we are at war with terrorism". You think that the American people will disagree with it? you seriously think the Bush administration will support terrorist acts against it's closest ally after 9/11? (By the way, it's worth pointing out that the biggest loss of British life in terrorist action was not Omagh or Bloody Friday, but actually 9/11, where we lost 67 people). Any action now could easily escalate badly. Not that I would condone Israeli-style atacks like launching a hundred Storm Shadows or sending in anti-tank helicopters, but it could happen. (and, bear in mind, the security services have stopped so many Al-Quaeda attacks recently that it's only a matter of time. Britain is well-versed in anti-terrorism.) [/quote] [quote]They are terrorists. End of story. It's exactly the same reason the UDA are being forced to disband.[/quote] To who, To the dam brits..HA! like there beliefs mean anything. UDA should be, they continue to defend the subjection of the irish to britain! The IRA are fighting to free it. BIG DIFFERENCE. [quote]By the way, you think that the IRA have any chance of actually using the guns anymore? If there was a major strike on the mainland by the IRA, all Tony Blair has to do is stand up and say "we are at war with terrorism". You think that the American people will disagree with it? you seriously think the Bush administration will support terrorist acts against it's closest ally after 9/11?[/quote] The RIRA/CIRA are doing a pretty good job, but I doubt the PIRA, theyve been off the scene too long. American people are controlled by the media and bush, wouldnt matter if Blair said the opposite. Bush and blair are buddies, doesnt make a difference, the brits have tried destroying Irish nationalism since 1169, and never did, and never will . [quote](By the way, it's worth pointing out that the biggest loss of British life in terrorist action was not Omagh or Bloody Friday, but actually 9/11, where we lost 67 people).[/quote] Thank Bush for ignoring multiple intel warnings. [quote](and, bear in mind, the security services have stopped so many Al-Quaeda attacks recently that it's only a matter of time. Britain is well-versed in anti-terrorism.)[/quote] FOXNews doesnt count as a source, nor any republican. Al-Qaeda is way more effective than you guys let on, hell you knobs thought ud be welcomed in iraq..ROFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmasser777 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jan 9 2005, 02:37 PM'] I suppose this is the failing of the modern republican movement, the triumph of ideology over reality, rationality and pragmatism. [/quote] Actually its historical Republicanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmasser777 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote]There are still Irish American sympathizers with the IRA, there always have been. Even after 911, they see the IRA as just a bit different, maybe because they agree with them I guess. As far as I'm concerned, it was a necessary and just cause in the begining, no one can deny that there was much persecution of Catholics first in all of Ireland and then just in Northern Ireland. The Provisional IRA was formed to counteract british persecution. It did that until 1997 it chose to come to a ceasefire. I think that is a very prudent action and I agree with the leadership of the IRA. I agree with the founders, and I agree with the leaders now basically. But the cause of a united Ireland shouldn't be abandoned, the war is at ceasefire and I see this as a NEGOTIATION period. Sure, it's not traditional negotiating, because it's a political fight and not a discussion between like ambassadors. But if the political branch succeeds, it will be the people of Northern Ireland choosing to join the Republic. Frankly, I think the only people that would be upset would be the loyalists. Britain, IMHO, would be all too happy to get rid of Northern Ireland, it's too much trouble for them.[/quote] *Applaud* Good stuff bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I wish I was Irish. My English speaking (Catholic) ancestors were all English exports to Maryland. Not even the tiniest bit of Irish blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 awwe that's too bad... but you can be irish at heart! i wish i grew up in Ireland and/or had an Irish accent... if it weren't for that beaver dam potato famine i would! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 the guy that invented the cure for potato blight was from my town! a little interesting fact. Phatmasser 777, please try and keep this relatively light hearted, as the rest of us are doing, not bearing grudges over a difference in opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I truely think the end of the world is coming, because I actually substantially agree with phatmasser777 on this issue. I simply donot know what to do, it's just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 lol, that is strange.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 10 2005, 06:20 AM'] No you dont. You dont even know the basics, infact I dont even think you live in Eire. [/quote] She doesn't. She lives in the United Kingdom. [quote](MARY-land )[/quote] ..was named after the wife of King Charles I. [quote]But if the political branch succeeds, it will be the people of Northern Ireland choosing to join the Republic. [/quote] The majority of Northern Ireland are loyalist. [quote]Frankly, I think the only people that would be upset would be the loyalists. Britain, IMHO, would be all too happy to get rid of Northern Ireland, it's too much trouble for them.[/quote] Whilst I see your point that's not the legal issue. the UK will not allow it's citzens to be taken over by a foreign country against the wishes of the majority of those being affected. the United Nations explicitly supports the [i]status quo[/i] of the situation under it's self-determination clauses. And speaking of Texas, when is the USA going to give back Texas to Mexico? After all, you invaded it and took it over and have been persecuting mexicans all this time bla bla bla........ (and by the way, when I said that most Britons love the Irish nation, I wasn't kidding. For almost everyone here the northern ireland issue pales when you look at the wider Anglo-Irish relationship.) Edited January 10, 2005 by RandomProddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) she lives in Northern Ireland. anyway, we're in the political negotiation stage of the cause, the pIRA is at a ceasefire so that Sinn Fein can try to work some political magic. All we need to do is make sure the Catholics in Northern Ireland are devout and we'll overcome with numbers. Sinn Fein can do it, believe in them and back them up. this is the time for us to finish the job Michael Collins started, except we're no longer negotiating with the British Government but with the people of Northern Ireland themselves. I have no doubt many englishmen love the Irish nation. I understand that right now there is a majority, but it is now a political game. I'm not suggesting a random take by force, it's time to negotiate with the people of Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein is gaining momentum and if Catholics there are obedient we're going to be in the majority eventually. I'm not a britain-hater, at least not british people like G.K. Chesterton and Hillaire Belloc! I don't like loyalists and hope and pray the six counties will one day be in the republic. Texas agreed to become a state and CAN LEAVE OF ITS OWN ACCORD any time it wants. I know, it's kinda the same thing, but on another level it's not. Mexicans haven't wanted texas back for many years. the Irish cause, however, is still alive and they do want the north back. anyway, as far as I can tell right now N.I. can leave of its own accord any time it likes, now let's make it happen. Go Sinn Fein!!!! [color=#009900]Erin go Braugh[/color] Edited January 10, 2005 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 11 2005, 12:30 AM'] she lives in Northern Ireland. anyway, we're in the political negotiation stage of the cause, the pIRA is at a ceasefire so that Sinn Fein can try to work some political magic. All we need to do is make sure the Catholics in Northern Ireland are devout and we'll overcome with numbers. Sinn Fein can do it, believe in them and back them up. this is the time for us to finish the job Michael Collins started, except we're no longer negotiating with the British Government but with the people of Northern Ireland themselves. [/quote] I admire your vision, but hopefully if the British government keep their nose clean then we will get gathering support in the province from all sides. Remember, there are more catholic loyalists than protestant nationalists. [quote]Sinn Fein is gaining momentum and if Catholics there are obedient we're going to be in the majority eventually.[/quote] Obedient?! to whom or what? [quote]I'm not a britain-hater, at least not british people like G.K. Chesterton and Hillaire Belloc![/quote] Then let me give you a few more. Isaac Newton, William Shakespeare, Winston Churchill, Oliver Cromwell, George Stevenson, Charles Dickens, Horatio Nelson, James Watt, Michael Faraday, Alexander Fleming, Florence Nightingale.... [quote]I don't like loyalists[/quote] Oh, come on, it's not like we have fangs and eat babies.. Edited January 10, 2005 by RandomProddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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