Irish National Sovereignty

[Guest Aluigi]

i'm most afraid that the Irish Nation is simply going to be reduced to these states:

[img]http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/island_euro_constituencies.gif[/img]

THAT is not Ireland, that is five states in the United States of Europe. :ph34r:

Edited January 8, 2005 by Aluigi

[Noel's angel]

no, the provisionals were the ones who started all the violence, then the Real IRA began to cause they were losing support, people began saying that IRA stood for 'I Ran Away'

[Noel's angel]

there is no way, ireland will give over all power to Europe, EVER

[Guest Aluigi]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:38 PM'] there is no way, ireland will give over all power to Europe, EVER [/quote]
I hope not.. it's at a crossraods... it can either end up as the Maryland of the US of Europe or the Texas. Texas has more state power, even to the point that it has in writing a right to suceed. Maryland gave up its state power more, used to be a Catholic state and such. Which way will Ireland go? Which way will the E.U. go? Ireland must be much more wary of the E.U. than it seems to be now.

[Noel's angel]

i trust the Irish government. there is no way they would give up power to Europe and lose her identity

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jan 8 2005, 08:57 AM'] There are a sizeable number of catholics in the UK who are unionist. In fact, far from the Establisment being anti-catholic. the Education Secretary, not only being a catholic, is a member of Opus Dei. [/quote]
Probably ones BORN in the UK. One of my uncles is one of those traitors.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jan 8 2005, 08:59 AM'] Therefore 94% of people in the Republic are wrong... [/quote]
Its the historical that matters, the POBLACHT NA H EIREANN THIS IS IRELAND. Not 26 here and 6 there.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 09:15 AM'] oh! i wasnt talking about you! no, i think u made some good arguments. at least in England, u know a fair bit about whats going on over here [/quote]
And you had a shot at people who didnt know about the war...lol And u make such an ignorant statement, ever heard of the [i]Psy Ops War[/i]??? For those its roughly the equivelent of FOXNEWS but on about a 1000:1 scale.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 03:03 PM']
no, they dont. what about the Omagh bomb? they told the people it was at one end of the main street, so as they would all run to the other end where the bomb actually was.

I cant see Sinn Fein achieving a United Ireland, the DUP is still the largest perty and I cant see many Unionists wanting to give up on their cause.



yes, i have NO problem with your posts



the DUP are a political party who aren't officially affiliated to any paramilitary organisation, it is the UVF etc. who are the terrorists.

i think its great that you have an interest and some knowledge of what you are talking about, but I think that maybe a lot of people don't realise that the IRA aren't these great heros. In fact, Sinn Fein's leader Gerry Adams once said that he could envisage a time when the IRA would no longer exist. Now, if the Sinn Fein leader says that, think of how the majority of ordinary people in Northern Ireland feel about the IRA. [/quote]
THAT WAS THE [b]REAL[/b] IRA!!!!!!! The Provos were on ceasefire since 1997.

GOD u know NOTHING for a person that lives there!

[quote]I cant see Sinn Fein achieving a United Ireland, the DUP is still the largest perty and I cant see many Unionists wanting to give up on their cause.[/quote]

Sinn Fein could achieve it, if there wasnt so much division among republican/nationalists. Theres like 4-5 political parties. This goes all the way back to [i]The HON. Bobby Sands MP[/i], where one of the republican opponents refused to step down until the last minute, and then Prisoner Bobby Sands, became The Hon. Bobby Sands MP

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:03 PM'] yes, but, Sinn Feins unwillingness for the IRA decommissioning will probably lose them votes. There are only so many people who will vote for Sinn Fein. They'd have to win most of the votes from the SDLAP and some from Unionist parties to win, and that is unlikely to happen.

BTW, the Omagh bomb thing wasnt a mistake [/quote]
OY. More knowledge required.

The Decommissioning was NEVER APART of it, the George Mitchell International Body stated that decommissioning was [b]not[/b] a needed precondition for talks. Also why the hell should the IRA have to disarm? The loyalists dont have a very good track record of keeping their men under tight command. The second the IRA gives up all its weapons and has nothing, they will be defenseless against loyalist attacks and bombings, and theres no point having a political process when all your voters have been bombed outta there homes or shot dead by the UDA?UVF/UFF(UVF Disguise)!

SF is the largest nationalist party. DUP is the largest Unionist part.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 8 2005, 04:37 PM'] no, the provisionals were the ones who started all the violence, then the Real IRA began to cause they were losing support, people began saying that IRA stood for 'I Ran Away' [/quote]
Context Required!

The IRA did not start the Post-1969 Violence, Gusty Spence did and his loyalist death squads. The RUC gave even more reason, heres a video of John Hume being attacked by an RUC man from behind on a Civil Rights march:

[url="http://irishrepublicanarmy.info/Videos.html"]http://irishrepublicanarmy.info/Videos.html[/url] > DL "Duke Street- The Origin of the Troubles" WMV One.

RIRA have grown in support, there base now is estimated at around 70-80 full-time cells.

[quote]people began saying that IRA stood for 'I Ran Away'[/quote]

That was used by Catholics for the 'Officials' back in 1968-9 when they refused to protect them from loyalist death squads, and the some loyalist groups began to use that for the SF and the IRA when they went on Ceasefire, funny enuf most of those loyalists that used it, are on ceasefire now!

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 8 2005, 11:41 PM'] I hope not.. it's at a crossraods... it can either end up as the Maryland of the US of Europe or the Texas.  Texas has more state power, even to the point that it has in writing a right to suceed.  Maryland gave up its state power more, used to be a Catholic state and such.  Which way will Ireland go?  Which way will the E.U. go?  Ireland must be much more wary of the E.U. than it seems to be now. [/quote]

I think you should get some idea of scale. Ireland is about half the population of London.

I very much doubt that it would be the equialent of Texas. You should bear in mind that the Republic of Ireland, by population, makes up about 1% of the EU, is militarily/politically neutral and a pretty small player on the world stage.

The UK by contrast...

..makes up about 15% of the EU, is one of the biggest countries in the union both in terms of people and money and in fact it has one of the biggest economies in the world in it's own right and is a member of the G8. The UK has a bigger economy than any one single state in the US (it's very close to CA and sometimes trades places), has the world's biggest foreign exchange, is the world's fourth importer (and Ireland's biggest trading partner), has one of the 5 permanent seats on the UN security council, is one of the most potent countries in the world in terms of military firepower, is one of only 2 EU countries with nuclear weapons and, along with Sweden and Denmark, has sole control over it's own currency.

In other indicators, The UK has the world's biggest oil company to look after it's interests in the Middle East. The UK itself is an oil exporter thanks to the North Sea and on top of that, gets free oil to the tune of up to 600,000 barrels a day from the Saudis thanks to us equipping it's Air Force (the "Al Yamana" deal).

The UK and Ireland share a lot in common though. Apart form shared language, there is a lot of shared heritage. Most Britons on the Mainland think highly of the Irish nation.

I'd personally like a union of four countries to form together (England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales) but I think there is too much hatred for that to happen.


[quote]there is no way, ireland will give over all power to Europe, EVER[/quote]

After giving up economic control over itself you have to wonder what is left..

Edited January 9, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Noel's angel]

Oh my goodness, Phatmasser777, u have such an attitude problem. i know more about my country than you will ever know and i DO NOT appreciate being called ignorant, if you have nothing productive to say, dont say anything at all

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 9 2005, 04:47 AM'] Also why the hell should the IRA have to disarm? The loyalists dont have a very good track record of keeping their men under tight command. The second the IRA gives up all its weapons and has nothing, they will be defenseless against loyalist attacks and bombings, and theres no point having a political process when all your voters have been bombed outta there homes or shot dead by the UDA?UVF/UFF(UVF Disguise)! [/quote]
They are terrorists. End of story. It's exactly the same reason the UDA are being forced to disband.

By the way, you think that the IRA have any chance of actually using the guns anymore? If there was a major strike on the mainland by the IRA, all Tony Blair has to do is stand up and say "we are at war with terrorism". You think that the American people will disagree with it? you seriously think the Bush administration will support terrorist acts against it's closest ally after 9/11?

(By the way, it's worth pointing out that the biggest loss of British life in terrorist action was not Omagh or Bloody Friday, but actually 9/11, where we lost 67 people).

Any action now could easily escalate badly. Not that I would condone Israeli-style atacks like launching a hundred Storm Shadows or sending in anti-tank helicopters, but it could happen.

(and, bear in mind, the security services have stopped so many Al-Quaeda attacks recently that it's only a matter of time. Britain is well-versed in anti-terrorism.)

Edited January 9, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Noel's angel]

*applause*