Irish National Sovereignty

[Guest Aluigi]

if you've ever read the Irish Constitution, you know a big part of it is the national sovereignty of Ireland. And why shouldn't it be, they fought long enough for their own nation! Anyway, I see them all gung ho in the European Union and stuff, even accepting the Euro. I understand the economic benefits of this decision, but I can't help but wory they're going to give up their national sovereignty. You know the popular saying about the E.U., "The United States of Europe"... well, we started out with state sovereignty and gradually federalized. It seems this could happen with the E.U. as well. This kind of scares me. It would be good for them economically and all that yeah, but it's not a good idea IMHO. first, the more and more the EU federalizes the more in danger anti-abortion laws in places like the Republic of Ireland and Portugal and Poland are in danger. second, small government and local government is both the government form most in line with Catholic Teaching and the most effective government domestically for the people. Internationalizing and giving up national distinctions isn't good domestically for the true welfare of the people (regardless of what economic benefit it might have).

anyway, I fear Ireland could give away its national sovereignty. That would just make me cry, thinking of all the people who gave their lives to free Catholics from British oppression and they might just allow Catholoc laws to dissolve into the big secularization of the European Union.

What think you, is Ireland on the path giving up too much national sovereignty (I think it is)? is that a good or bad thing (i think it's bad)?

well, I didn't see anything in the constitution about presidents having to be nationally born, and they get 7 year terms! perhaps i could move there and join the political realm, i guess Fianna Fail would be an alright political party, but it's got some flaws. I donno, it's probably a little better than the Republican Party here. the only prob is that right now, they don't like Americans. maybe by the time I'm 35 the wounds will heal. My dad's lost contact with some people over there over this Iraq business

Do you think they'd mind if I just went over to Ireland and set up a monarchy, with the only real role of the monarch being to remind the people of the blood of their ancestors and keep them in the Faith and sovereign in their own nation? Ahhh... to be an Irish king... i should see if i can find any ancestry to make a good case for me bein some sort of heir! lol.

anyway, yeah, so let's debate the politics of Ireland. I fear for its national identity and its national sovereignty, how about you?

[Don John of Austria]

Free Ireland is dieing, it is not a good thing, and it dishonors the dead.

[crusader1234]

I agree. Don John, I remember discussing royal lines with you for a long time (about France and stuff). I wish I were a Hapsburg.

[Guest Aluigi]

I know.

I've been playing this song by Michael Gallagher all night, Down By the Glenside otherwise known as Bold Fenian Men. makes me wanna cry especially the line "and wise men have said that their cause was a failure"

I really want to try to help save Ireland before it's too late.

[Don John of Austria]

crusader-- Well on that we heartily agree

Edited December 31, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[Phatmasser777]

That wont happen in Europe. For Arguements sake, if a United Europe (The first time in ALL of history) happens, it will be worth it, whether the Church likes it or not, doesnt mean jack, its the people that count.

Anyways there is no such thing as [i]Irish National Sovereignty[/i] until the Six Counties are back where they belong!

[img]http://www.dannymorrison.ie/albums/CRAZYFENIAN/Tribute_to_Bobby_Sands_MP_Irish_republican.sized.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.hfcsd.org/marozell/ireland/irelan3.jpg[/img]

[Guest Aluigi]

amen about the six counties.

a united europe wouldn't be good for the people in my opinion. good economically, but not good for the general welfare of the people if the nations give up their individuality and let their laws be centralized and federalized. that wouldn't be good but that's the way it's headed, they're become a United States of Europe, and it won't be bad if they leave it the way our United States started out, with states rights and states sovereignty. in fact they shouldn't even form a federal government, leave the EU place as an alliance between nations and a consulting body.

[Phatmasser777]

Well I dont think it will happen, way too much of a culture clash, can you imagine ireland and holland?..LOL

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Anyways there is no such thing as Irish National Sovereignty until the Six Counties are back where they belong!
[/quote]


Oh my1 phatmasser777 and I agree on something, it must ba a sign of the End Times.

[Phatmasser777]

lol. Hmmm could Gerald Flurry be right?

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Dec 31 2004, 12:19 PM'] a united europe wouldn't be good for the people in my opinion. good economically, but not good for the general welfare of the people if the nations give up their individuality and let their laws be centralized and federalized. [/quote]
I absolutely agree. A united Europe would jeopardize the countless pro-life laws in many conservative countries. Like Pope John Paul has said, Europe must not forget its Christian history and the values Christianity has promoted throughout much of Europe's past.

I'll never forget watching CNN International when Ireland became a member of the EU. It made me sick to see such a great country join an unpredictable and liberal organization.

If Ireland desires to preserve their Catholic identity and their conservative morals, joining the EU is not in their best interests. Although the economic benefits of the EU are wonderful at the present time, the Euro will not survive for long in my opinion. The Euro is an extremely risky business venture that cannot compete with the mighty and consistent US Dollar.

I too agree that Catholic values are best expressed in smaller government, not huge bureaucracies. When America was first founded, states were granted more power than the federal government. In fact, there was no central government at all which had its disadvantages. But overall, freedom works more effectively when people govern themselves. The thought of Turkey, home to millions of Muslims, joining the EU has become a reality. What will a Muslim nation do to Ireland and other conservative Christian countries? Nothing militarily, but Turkey will pose a huge threat to the freedom and say of the Irish people.

This is quite sad, but the Irish can still do something.
They can choose to vote against the Euro.
They can choose to vote out liberal politicians who desire pro-choice officials.
They can choose to remain Catholic and defend their native Ireland!

May God Bless!

-conservativecatholic

[Noel's angel]

heck, why didn't i find this thread earlier?

[Guest Aluigi]

.... well you found it now... lol have anything to say?

[Noel's angel]

well, I do think that a lot of people here, because they don't live in Ireland, tend to take a very Republican approach. This is only because of what you have heard on television and through the media.

It will be a long time IF we ever get a United Ireland. We cannot expect change to happen quickly. I would ask people to consider the work of Republican movements such as the IRA and do not see them as the innocent party all the time. Ireland never should have been divided, but its what i have to live with, and life goes on. It doesnt mean that I feel any less of an Irish citizen.

I would just urge people here on Phatmass to consider what various Republican movements have done to try to get a United Ireland and see that there methods were wrong. I do not know what rubbish the media feed you all, but i say, if you want to know what the situation is really like, come over here and see for yourself, rather than making presumptions.

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jan 3 2005, 09:49 AM'] well, I do think that a lot of people here, because they don't live in Ireland, tend to take a very Republican approach. This is only because of what you have heard on television and through the media.

It will be a long time IF we ever get a United Ireland. We cannot expect change to happen quickly. I would ask people to consider the work of Republican movements such as the IRA and do not see them as the innocent party all the time. Ireland never should have been divided, but its what i have to live with, and life goes on. It doesnt mean that I feel any less of an Irish citizen.

I would just urge people here on Phatmass to consider what various Republican movements have done to try to get a United Ireland and see that there methods were wrong. I do not know what rubbish the media feed you all, but i say, if you want to know what the situation is really like, come over here and see for yourself, rather than making presumptions. [/quote]
You may have not been refering to me but I have not assumed anything about the state in which Ireland's politics is in. The American news media, if anything, is incredibly biased against Roman Catholics in Ireland. In America, we have what's called a "liberal" news media. I suppose the news media in every country is liberal, except for in the Vatican or Arabic countries. lol. Anyway, If anything, the news in America presents Irish Catholics as all beeing apart of the IRA. What a horrible stereotype. The news in the states never shows the Protestant killing the innocent Catholic girl going to school or horiffic Protestant marches through Catholic towns. Ireland is not ready to reunite and will never reunite.

May God Bless!

-conservativecatholic