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Charismatic Catholics viewed as nonorthodox?


Paladin D

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[quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 8 2005, 05:03 PM'] Not just at FUS. The same has gone on at other schools, like Christendom, too.

Of course, the "Thomists" I'm thinking of often lacked Thomas' own humble spirit. [/quote]
Things are slowly changing in the Catholic Church, and more people are beginning to see the beauty of the theology underlying Eastern liturgical practice, with its heavy focus on the doctrine of [i]theosis[/i].

For people interested in reading more about Palamite theology, I recommend the books "A Theology of Uncreated Energies," by George A. Maloney, S.J., and "Introduction to Saint Gregory Palamas," by Fr. George C. Papademetriou; in addition Fr. Meyendorff's "A Study of St. Gregory Palamas," is one of the most important modern studies of Palamism.

The first two books have the added benefit of being concise treatments of the topic, while also being very easy to read. Meyendorff's book is more detailed, but is a great read nonetheless, although I don't agree with him about Palamas "correcting" the writings of Pseudo-Dionysios, rather, I believe that St. Gregory's interpretation of the Areopagite is more accurate than that of Western medieval authors.

God bless,
Todd

P.S. - Many of the writings of Vladimir Lossky are also helpful in understanding the Eastern theological tradition and how it is different from the scholastic tradition of the West.

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George Maloney's [i]The Mystery of Christ in You: The Mystical Vision of St. Paul[/i] is also a great book. It was one of the resources I recommended in a study of the centrality of [i]theosis[/i] in Pauline soteriology when I was in school.

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[quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 8 2005, 07:20 PM'] George Maloney's [i]The Mystery of Christ in You: The Mystical Vision of St. Paul[/i] is also a great book. It was one of the resources I recommended in a study of the centrality of [i]theosis[/i] in Pauline soteriology when I was in school. [/quote]
The book sounds quite interesting. Two of the books that helped me to see the centrality of [i]theosis[/i], and of membership in the Church herself, within St. Paul's theology are "The Common Life in the Body of Christ," by L. S. Thornton, and the scriptural and patristical study by Fr. Emile Mersch entitled "The Whole Christ." Both books show how man's assimilation to Christ in His mystical Body simultaneously brings about his divnization.

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[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 8 2005, 09:25 PM'] "The Common Life in the Body of Christ," by L. S. Thornton, and the scriptural and patristical study by Fr. Emile Mersch entitled "The Whole Christ." Both books show how man's assimilation to Christ in His mystical Body simultaneously brings about his divnization. [/quote]
I think you might enjoy the Maloney book. It's simple and not too long, so it's good for sharing. I suspect that it may even have apologetic potential with Protestants. I do not know these books you name. Will have to check them out!

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[quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 8 2005, 07:30 PM'] I think you might enjoy the Maloney book. It's simple and not too long, so it's good for sharing. I suspect that it may even have apologetic potential with Protestants. I do not know these books you name. Will have to check them out! [/quote]
I will look for that book. I did find his book on the uncreated energies to be very easy to understand, so I have a feeling his other books are written in a similar manner.

God bless,
Todd

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[quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 8 2005, 08:03 PM'] Not just at FUS. The same has gone on at other schools, like Christendom, too.

Of course, the "Thomists" I'm thinking of often lacked Thomas' own humble spirit. [/quote]
At Christendom? That is certainly not the case. In fact, if anything, it is just the opposite. There are a good number of Eastern Rite Catholics (and even some Latin Catholics) at Christendom who drive an hour every Sunday to attend the Divine Liturgy. This is not merely in the student body, but even among the faculty. For example, Dr. William Marshner, one of the founders and former head of the Theology department, is a Melkite.

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[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jan 8 2005, 10:55 PM'] At Christendom? That is certainly not the case. [/quote]
I can assure you that it most certainly has been. I will not provide names or dates, for the sake of the innocent, but I know several Eastern Catholics who were treated [i]horrifically[/i] by so-called "Thomists" at Christendom.

I'm glad to hear that's stopped.

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[quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 9 2005, 12:15 AM'] I can assure you that it most certainly has been. I will not provide names or dates, for the sake of the innocent, but I know several Eastern Catholics who were treated [i]horrifically[/i] by so-called "Thomists" at Christendom.

I'm glad to hear that's stopped. [/quote]
We would have to dive into specifics to better understand the situation, which would not be a good idea on a public forum. I'm not saying that eastern spirituality or theology is taught; rather, that it is well represented. Sure it’s debated (as it always has been in the Church between the east and west). There is nothing wrong with that. Christendom is firmly rooted in Thomism. Nothing wrong with that either. Sometimes there is a strong reaction against anything apart from Thomism for the simple fact that people see what a mess modern theology became when it departed from solid Thomistic principles. Sometimes that reaction is justified. Other times, not so much.

So without getting more specific, I don't know if I can say that what you are referring to has stopped.

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I've actually heard people accuse Christendom of leading peole away from the Latin Rite into the Eastern Rites (or even orthodoxy). I guess it just depends on who you talk to.

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I am simply writing this in gratitude to those of you on this phorum who treat your fellow Catholics of charismatic spirituality as you should and as is their due. There are many Catholics who seem "fine" with the whole idea of being Catholic ... except for the small detail of loving one another. It seems to me like a situation in a family. The closer you are to someone, the harder it becomes to love them, at least for me it seems. Similarly, within the arms of our Holy Mother Church, it becomes difficult to love a brother so close, but who has his differences. Thank you from one who actually exists and is deeply in love with Christ BECAUSE OF the charismatic renewal and through its work!

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. . . just a random thing . . . Dr. William Marshner, as mentioned above, head of the theology department at Christendom (haha), as well as being Melkite is also strongly charismatic. In fact, he used to invite Christendom students to his home for charismatic prayer and told me he would invite me over and do just that once again. Sadly, charismatic prayer is now forbidden on Christendom campus. Anyways, carry on as you were. Sorry to interrupt . . .

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[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jan 9 2005, 04:54 AM'] Sadly, charismatic prayer is now forbidden on Christendom campus. [/quote]
Why?

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[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:30 AM'] what do all of you think about King david Dancing in undergarments, praising God marching home with his army? [/quote]
i think i'd do the same on my way home with my army...

but i also think i wouldn't dance around at mass.

it's a question of what's proper to do at MASS, you can dance all you want to for the Lord outside of the Liturgy.

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[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jan 9 2005, 05:54 AM'] . . . just a random thing . . . Dr. William Marshner, as mentioned above, head of the theology department at Christendom (haha), as well as being Melkite is also strongly charismatic. In fact, he used to invite Christendom students to his home for charismatic prayer and told me he would invite me over and do just that once again. Sadly, charismatic prayer is now forbidden on Christendom campus. Anyways, carry on as you were. Sorry to interrupt . . . [/quote]
While he has certain charismatic inclinations as far as personal prayer is concerned or even prayer in groups, he also holds that it has no place whatsoever in the Liturgy. He makes even further distinctions between legitimate Charismatic prayer, and what is commonly passed off as charismatic prayer.

I will not elaborate any more on this particular point (that of Marshner's beliefs about Charismatic prayer) since my conversations with him on the subject have not been of a public nature.

As far as Charismatic prayer being forbidden at Christendom, you would have to elaborate as to what you mean by that. Is it forbidden at Mass? Yes. As well it should be. Is it forbidden period. I know of no such rule. Personally, I wouldn't care if it was, but I do not think that is the case.

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