hyperdulia again Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 How is the inclination towards homosexuality diseased? I have an inclination to punch a couple of people right now, it would be a sin..is that diseased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 4 2005, 11:45 PM'] How is the inclination towards homosexuality diseased? I have an inclination to punch a couple of people right now, it would be a sin..is that diseased? [/quote] It isn't. This whole thread is bigoted. The first post in the thread made me as ill as the title did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 We get liberalism and GLBT activism precisely because of the Protestant heresy by the way. Protestantism disturbs me far more than homosexuality does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 4 2005, 11:48 PM'] We get liberalism and GLBT activism precisely because of the Protestant heresy by the way. Protestantism disturbs me far more than homosexuality does. [/quote] Yeah protestantism is far more evil than homosexuality. At least homosexuality doesn't pretend to be Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoxide Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 do i sense sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 [quote name='Monoxide' date='Jan 5 2005, 02:28 AM'] do i sense sarcasm? [/quote] No, you sense the opposite of sarcasm - sincerity. I really do feel that this thread's title and premise are bigotted. I really do feel that protestantism is a greater evil than homosexuality. I really do feel that referring to homosexuality as a disease smacks of protestantism. What about that is sarcastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Oy. I don't know why I come back and visit. Nothing ever changes here. The meaning of "disordered" as used by the Church means contrary to the natural order -- it means that homosexuality is not the natural way of things. It does not, however, mean that it is a disease. One must be able to interpret what the Church is saying if one is going to presume to be a laptop theologian. Everything that is not the natural way of things is not a disease. Celibacy, for instance, is not the natural way of things -- nor is it a disease. Of course, homosexuality is not the same as celibacy, but just because it is not natural does not therefore mean that it is a disease. I can make that argument better, but it's late (or early, depending on how one looks at it) and I'm tired. I'm sure someone will counterargue, and then I will make the other, better argument tomorrow. (By the way, before one of the moderators get censor happy, nothing of the above contradicts Church teaching). Another example: the sin of using artificial contraception is disordered, it is not natural, but the temptation to use contraception does not mean that one has a disease. It means that one has sinful inclinations just like... everyone else. It's amazing to me that people who also commit sins are so ready to accuse another group of people who likewise commit sins of having a disease. Does our collective negligence toward the poor (even if you give, you are nevertheless probably still negligent because you are not giving enough, and I do include myself in this sweeping indictment) -- anyway, does our collective negligence to the poor indicate that we have a disease? Letting people starve to death is, indeed, disordered. Welcome to the diseased human race, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Celibacy, as the Lord Himself indicated (Mt. 19:12), is neither disordered nor is it unnatural. Not everyone is called to the married life. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The Catholic Church herself teaches that homosexual inclinations are intrinsically disordered (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church). This is not something I made up, nor is it protestant. While all sin is in a sense disordered, homosexual desires are disordered in a more serious way. Fornication is a sin, yet is not unnatural, and the heterosexual sex drive is not considered by the Church to be "intrinsically disordered." If you have a problem with this, your problem is with the Catholic Church. And, on another topic, while the orginal split of protestantism against the Church is evil, and we wish all protestants to return to the true Church (both my parents were converts from protestantism), there are many protestants ignorant of the truth of the Catholic Faith, who sincerely love Jesus and wish to follow him. We pray that they may find the True Faith. However, love of Christ and the scripture is hardly to be found in the liberal gay-rights movement, which is often vehemently and hysterically anti-Christian, and can only be described as Satanic to the core. Sorry if this offends any P.C. sensibilities, but I'm just telling it like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 5 2005, 12:56 PM'] The Catholic Church herself teaches that homosexual inclinations are intrinsically disordered (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church). This is not something I made up, nor is it protestant. While all sin is in a sense disordered, homosexual desires are disordered in a more serious way. Fornication is a sin, yet is not unnatural, and the heterosexual sex drive is not considered by the Church to be "intrinsically disordered." If you have a problem with this, your problem is with the Catholic Church. And, on another topic, while the orginal split of protestantism against the Church is evil, and we wish all protestants to return to the true Church (both my parents were converts from protestantism), there are many protestants ignorant of the truth of the Catholic Faith, who sincerely love Jesus and wish to follow him. We pray that they may find the True Faith. However, love of Christ and the scripture is hardly to be found in the liberal gay-rights movement, which is often vehemently and hysterically anti-Christian, and can only be described as Satanic to the core. Sorry if this offends any P.C. sensibilities, but I'm just telling it like it is. [/quote] So which is more dangerous to a Christian: Anti-christian behavior on an excessive scale, or a heresy? Which is more tempting? I think that covers protestantism. As for homosexuality being intrinsically disordered - yes. But the point was that it isn't a disease. And a lot of the things being bandied about in this thread are bigoted and antithetical to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 dis·ease ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-zz) n. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. [i]A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful. [/i] Please look at the second definition. dis + ease = something out of kilter. dis + order = something out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 5 2005, 01:29 PM'] dis·ease  ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-zz) n. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. [i]A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful. [/i] Please look at the second definition. dis + ease = something out of kilter. dis + order = something out of place. [/quote] The second definition only fits with homosexual behavior according to the Catholic church. SSA or homosexuality would not be included. disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning Hmmm...wow that fits just about everybody in some way or another. So why do we use this word only to refer to homosexuals on this board? Hmmm. Well maybe it is because despite the dictionary definition, the word carries with it something called a connotation. Main Entry: con·no·ta·tion Pronunciation: "kä-n&-'tA-sh&n Function: noun 1 a : the suggesting of a meaning by a word apart from the thing it explicitly names or describes Edited January 5, 2005 by spathariossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I certainly don't. Alcoholism is a disease by the definition I used as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The common cold is a disease. Right now, I'm suffering from the common cold. I suppose that makes me a diseased individual. Lots of honorable people suffer from various physical diseases. Homosexuality is a moral disorder. This is worse than a physical disease in my book! You can quibble about the definitions of words all you like. This does not change the fact that homosexuality is a moral/psychological disorder (or "disease" if you will). We should seek to cure people of their diseases. One cannot seek a cure if the disease is not acknowledged? This is (true) compassion, not bigotry. Why do some (supposedly Catholic) people here seem so intent on saying (or implying) that homosexuality is somehow really not that bad? That goes against everything the Catholic Church teaches on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The teaching of the Church is that homosexual orientation is [i]disordered[/i], not [i]diseased[/i]. If the latter term were acceptable for use by Catholics, I'm sure the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith would have used it. As it is, the burden is upon Catholics using the term [i]disease[/i] to explain why they are departing from the language of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on a sensitive issue that [i]should[/i] only involve precise theological language. Also, Socrates, the Church does not suggest that homosexuals should be "cured" of their "disease" -- and the suggestion that they should be cured is [i]precisely[/i] why I oppose the language of "disease." The Church teaches that homosexuals are called to chastity, which means that they are called to live celibate lifestyles with a homosexual orientation. The Church [i]does not teach[/i] what Protestants teach, that homosexuals must seek to change their orientation to a heterosexual orientation. This very Protestant concept finds no basis in Catholic teaching, not in the Catechism section that pertains to this topic nor in the letters of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This concept has, rather, been introduced into Catholicism by the Catholic Medical Association and the Courage Apostolate -- but not by the magisterium. Therefore, it is at best a reformable theological opinion that homosexuality is a "disease" that must be "cured" -- given its lack of basis in Church teaching, and given the lack of support in valid scientific and medical circles, those who support such a "theological opinion" are treading on thin ice that may soon break and drop them into the frozen lake of uncharitability, bigotry and hatred. As for your statement that heterosexual fornication is not "intrinsically disordered" -- you're right, the Church does not call it that. But you know what? Intrinsically disordered or not, it will land you in hell just as quickly as homosexual behavior will, according to the Church, land homosexuals in hell. Intrinsically disordered or not, mortal sin is mortal sin -- it all cuts people off from the divine life, and it will all land people in everlasting punishment if they die without having confessed it. Thus, we can quibble over the definition of this sin or that sin all we want, but the truth is that the [i]effect[/i] of all of these sins we're discussing is the same: eternal punishment, eternal separation from God. So don't get all self-righteous with me about your sins not being "intrinsically disordered." That will make little difference when we're gnashing our teeth together in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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