ATTN: Apotheoun - The nature and effects ofbaptism

[ICTHUS]

I would like, if I could, this discussion to be restricted to myself and Todd (Apotheoun).

Todd, you said something in the other thread that caught my attention.

[quote]But regardless, I feel compelled to add that since my conversion to Catholicism I have been baffled by the Protestant rejection of the doctrine that the sacraments work ex opere operato, because this doctrine protects against both the Donatist heresy and Pelagianism. The efficacy of the sacraments is based upon Christ's own institution and His continued action within the Church, and not upon any subjective disposition or presumed holiness of the priest celebrant, or of the recipient of the sacrament in question. [/quote] The Reformed doctrine of Baptism presents neither Pelagianism nor Donatism. It is thus.

[quote]I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5] of remission of sins,[6] and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life.[7] Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.[8]

II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the Gospel, lawfully called thereunto.[9]

III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.[10]

IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[11] but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.[12]

V. Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]

VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;[16] yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongs unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in His appointed time.[17]

VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.[18][/quote]

We are not taught in the preceeding Catechism that the efficacy of the sacrament depends on the holiness of the minister (Donatism). In fact, (vi) explicitly affirms that 'the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited and conferred, by the Holy Ghost.....to such as that grace belongs to, according to the counsel of God's own Will, in His appointed time'

What this means is that to those who are among the Elect, the grace offered in Holy Baptism is conferred by God, according to the counsel of His Holy Will, and in His appointed time. In a nutshell, those who are baptised who are selected from before the foundation of the World from among the massa damnata (to use Augustines phrase) to receive God's grace in justification, vocation to the Christian life, justification, and glorification, will be saved [i]by and through their baptism[/i].

Yet, as (v) teaches 'yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]'

Here, in essence, we have the that although the Sacraments are the ordinary means through which God acts, it is possible for Him to act outside of them when it suits His Will, as certain passages in Scripture prove.

So, I do not see how the doctrine I have just presented is liable to either Donatism or Pelagianism. But perhaps you've noticed something I haven't?

(Also, my quoting of the WCF will serve as a good jumping off point for us to discuss the Sacrament by which, we both agree, a person is made a part of the Covenant)

[Apotheoun]

I think it is best to first discuss the nature of a sacrament, or as the East calls them, a mystery, before moving on to the particular mysteries.

[Apotheoun]

What is a mystery? How do you understand the ontological nature of a sign?

If we don't agree on these and other particular issues in connection with the incarnation and the nature of signs as living manifestations of God, we will simply be talking past each other.

[Apotheoun]

In reading through your initial post, I already foresee a major problem in our discussion, and it concerns the nature of grace itself, i.e., what is grace? For Eastern Christians grace is the uncreated energy of God, it is God [i]ad extra[/i], and so it is not reducible to God's will. Grace is an ontological participation in God's own uncreated life and glory. But the danger involved in our discussion is centered on the fact that we share, at least to a certain degree, a common terminology, and thus it could appear at times as if we are agreeing, when in fact we are not. I think these types of problems need to be addressed first, because our understanding of the sacraments (mysteries) is based upon these more general considerations.

God bless,
Todd