The Ultimate Sacrifice/Cure for Abortion?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Okay. Well, my point is that we cannot really consider going to such extremes without really trying other things. I'm not necessarily against violence, but again I see no reason for it. I've helped out at vigils and have seen babies spared. I know it works. I've met people with conversions. I know what people go through (somewhat).
[/quote]

What hasn't been tried? You must live in a very pro abortion area beccause every thing has been tried prayer, load protest, sidewalk councilling silent protest, rosery sittins ( which where activly persecuted by the government), what would you sujest as another route.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote] But I bet more people would die in a war than children will die to abortion.[/quote]

Fist of all thats [i][b]really[/b] [/i]not likly you should study history a bit more, the entire dead of four years of very brutal and less selective fighting during the War between the States was only 600,000 or so or about 4 1/2 months of abortion in this country alone.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='save ferris 101' date='Dec 31 2004, 01:20 PM'] Nice way to generalize, it's amazing how you know why every single person in this country doesn't just go and up and start a civil war. Oh, it's because we're all cowards, and we don't like incovenience and being uncomfortable.


and to Don: After reading this whole thread, I cannot believe some of the things that you have said. You are starting to sound more and more like an Islamic suicide bomber. You think that's ok? I mean, theoretically, if we were Islamic, and Islam was the right religion, you would advocate suicide bombing an abortion clinic? Because that's what your arguments sound like to me [/quote]
What a silly question If I was a Mohammedian and The Faith of mohammed was the True Faith; I would support the subjecation of all the Christians, Jews , and Zoriasters, and the collection of the HeadTax on all of them, and the utter annialation of all the Athiest and Pagans. That is what the Koran teaches after all. Now specificly as a Mohammedian I wouldn't find abortion nearly as offensive as I do as a Christian, but I would have no trouble with suicide bombing of any enemy of the Faith on theoligical grounds-- only on Practical ones, better to try and escape to plant another bomb later. I don't really understand the realivence of the Querstion as I am not a Mohammedian and the faith of mohammed is not the right religion. I am a Catholic and argueing from a Catholic perspective even if it's nota view youlike it is a Catholic one.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]
There shouldn't be riots yet, for the same reason.[/quote]

On the contrary there should have been riots in the street on January 23rd, 1973
the Justices( I loath to use that name for them) should have been pulled from their homes and hung from the highest monument in washington.


[quote]I see no real reason to overthrow a legitimate government.
[/quote]

Show me a legitimate government and I'll have that discussion with you, however our government is not and has never been a ligetimate government so that is not an issue.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]You forget that Christians went willingly to the lions.
[/quote]

Cmom -- no they didn't, agian the history here is atrocious. The Christians didn't fight that is quite differant that going willingly-- infact the early Church forbad turning one self in and seeking martyrdom, one was supposed to do ones best to stay alive.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]I think riots have the potential to cause too much evil.. [/quote]

Compared to abortion! howmuch is too much?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Yes, but what type of action would be just? It's hard to say.
[/quote]


No it's not hard to say, if a bunch of men had fought the kings troops ( which i am sure they did) that would have been just, if they had overthrown the Kingdom that would have been Just, if they had put herods head on a platter that would have been just.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]And this is the biggest point, we certainly are not at the last resort.

[/quote]

Theoketos- and when exactly would that be How many dead are you talking about before it is the last resort, oh wait while I was typing this 20 children or so where denied the Beatific vision for all eternity oh theres another 10, seems pretty last resort for those who will die in the next houor or, day or year, how long is it before you can say that everything has been tried, how many dead?

[Tink]

wow, it's no wonder y'all have such high post counts-- you post things in, like, chapters!

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]If the material participation isn't as remote as possible, and I don't think it is, that's formal participation in evil.[/quote]

I think it is pretty remote, we disagree and unless you are capable of argueing that point to a much more compelling level ( please be specific) then you are simply rude to imply that it is the " end of story".

[Don John of Austria]

No tink I normaly don't get to post like this but I am on vacation, i have been around phatmass since mid 2002.

And I had a lot to respond to.

Edited December 31, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[Tink]

This is true!
Wow, you're a PM vet!

[Don John of Austria]

yeah and I still can't type.

[Monoxide]

Aluigi is a genious.
As he said,
the government cannot be allowed to function until they deal with this. traffic in all major cities should be blocked by masses of protestors. abortion clinics should be stormed by mobs and the instruments of death destroyed. this cannot be allowed to continue.
You see, many of us do not attempt anything, we are just talk. We need to railroad some action. If it made national television that organized Cathlics were revolting against abortion, for sure more Catholics would assist! In major cities we could do as someone stated above, and flood each clinic with pro-lifers, consoling and jostling the persons about to commit murder. If police called to break it up, protesters return fire by breaking abortion clinic equipment, if protester is injured or killed, created media frenzy on the fact that the government is forcefully quelling a peaceful demonstration.

I really like te idea of a general strike to hold up cities. I do not think we are great enough in numbers to do that - yet. Mabye we could do it one city at a time. Even one major city affects millions of people.

Truly you are inspired by our Master Aluigi, that is ingenious.
-Monoxide

[Q the Ninja]

[quote][quote]We are not a political authority. If they're not met, then no one can do it. [/quote]
We don't have to be Aluigi's post concerned when it is okay to revolt agianst political authority.[/quote]

We do when we're waging a just war.

[quote]Actually it does, through social programs which pay for abortion which have been numerous in the past, and through their direct financal support of institutions which do it, whether or not Federal money is spend directly on abortion is irrelevent, the money that is given to these intitutions is indirectly spent on abortion, Further ublic Facilities are REQUIRED to offer abortion services.[/quote]

Does this still happen today? I believe that Bush has tried to cut at least much of the funding.

[quote]30 years isn't long! are you smoking crack or something? I'm serious, 30 years is a huge amount of time thats why events say like the 30 years war are remembered by their length. More than that we have 45,000,000 dead it is eternity for them, we are approching the number of dead that where killed in all of world war II and that means ALL the dead military and civilian of the Entire world in the biggest war ever fought.[/quote]

I'm looking at the big picture. How many people would end up in this war? Most of the US. Probably Canada, too. How many will die? Too many. Plus, there are other ways, as I'll mention again in a minute.

[quote]oh your right it can and it will but I think you are correct in that the number of abortions will not go up but the other horrors of moderity will continue to get worse within 15 years we will have geneticly engineered babies, within 50 thats all we'll have.[/quote]

Well, right now abortion is the issue.

[quote]Your right there as much as we can would be drilling a bullet in the head of every abortionist in the world ( or at least that we could reach before someone got us) very very few of use have done that. [/quote]

If we aren't doing all we can now, how can we possibly claim that we have recource to just war? That only comes as a last resort.

[quote]I can think of 45,000,000 babies who will nbever see the beatific vision to go to war, that is a lot of reason, far more than anyother war in history. [/quote]

Why don't we do other things than war?

[quote]What hasn't been tried? You must live in a very pro abortion area beccause every thing has been tried prayer, load protest, sidewalk councilling silent protest, rosery sittins ( which where activly persecuted by the government), what would you sujest as another route. [/quote]

I live in Texas. Many things haven't been tried. If you look above, you'll realize how few people actually do help out with this issue as it is. I believe I discussed it some with Kilroy, especially the basics, and what's worked for me.

[quote]Fist of all thats really not likly you should study history a bit more, the entire dead of four years of very brutal and less selective fighting during the War between the States was only 600,000 or so or about 4 1/2 months of abortion in this country alone.[/quote]

Yes, but what was the percentage of the entire population at the time?

[quote]On the contrary there should have been riots in the street on January 23rd, 1973
the Justices( I loath to use that name for them) should have been pulled from their homes and hung from the highest monument in washington.[/quote]

So because we haven't done all we can now, we should resort to violence right away?

[quote]Show me a legitimate government and I'll have that discussion with you, however our government is not and has never been a ligetimate government so that is not an issue. [/quote]

I would like to hear an example of a legitimate government from you.

[quote]Compared to abortion! howmuch is too much? [/quote]

[b]Any more than necessary[/b].

[quote]No it's not hard to say, if a bunch of men had fought the kings troops ( which i am sure they did) that would have been just, if they had overthrown the Kingdom that would have been Just, if they had put herods head on a platter that would have been just. [/quote]

Maybe so, but this is different. There are other options available.

Get them put in jail. That's perfectly acceptable.

[quote]Theoketos- and when exactly would that be How many dead are you talking about before it is the last resort, oh wait while I was typing this 20 children or so where denied the Beatific vision for all eternity oh theres another 10, seems pretty last resort for those who will die in the next houor or, day or year, how long is it before you can say that everything has been tried, how many dead? [/quote]

Last resort means that there's nothing else we can do, it has nothing to do with numbers.

[quote]I think it is pretty remote, we disagree and unless you are capable of argueing that point to a much more compelling level ( please be specific) then you are simply rude to imply that it is the " end of story".[/quote]

I would like to clarify that my "end of story" is directed at the fact that not remote enough is evil, not the fact that this is not remote enough. I think there are other options, and killing everyone seems extreme. If you can peacefully get the abortionists in jail, why not try? Why risk the lives of the babies? If they die unnecessarily, that's evil.