save ferris 101 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 If we went to war against abortion, then the whole nation would collapse. Think about it. Soon, everybody would be fighting on every issue. It would set a very very dangerous precedent, not to mention completely and irrevocably divide the American nation. Soon, we would be fighting over homosexuality, the seperation of church and state issues. You can't just fight over anything you want, even if it is the most important thing in the world. Sometimes you have to use common sense. If we fought, our entire constitution would be null and void. If we don't follow the laws, however immoral they may be, then the other side won't follow the laws that we agree with. Now, I am not for say, pharmacists filling out prescriptions for contraceptives, that is wrong, and you should stand up for yourself. But in America, abortion is legal, and until people are forced to have abortion, and until it is directly affecting you, then we should not fight. Plus, we are beginning to turn the tide against the pro-death supporters, and I think that pretty soon, 50 years at the most, it will be gone. Civil war should be the last of the last resorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*lil girl 4 jesus* Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 save ferris 101, i agree that we should not go to war about abortion, but that does NOT mean we have to sit around on our butts and not do anything about it! :angry: !! my mom became pregnant with me outside of wedlock(she was not a christian) and she would have aborted me ( ) , if one christianwoman had not shared the gospel with my mother and convinced her not to abort me.( )so while we may not have to go to war on the issue , we can do something to help prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='curtins' date='Dec 29 2004, 03:24 PM'] we are at war- prayers are our m1 abrahms main battle tanks, rosaries our f14 tomcats, and letters our m4 assault rifles. yes letters- im gonna get tlc up and running- im gonna start tonight yes we are at war not by physical means but by spiritual and soon letter means [/quote] dude YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*lil girl 4 jesus* Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Dec 31 2004, 12:58 AM']dude YES! [/quote] i totally agree with both you guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*lil girl 4 jesus* Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='curtins' date='Dec 29 2004, 03:24 PM']we are at war- prayers are our m1 abrahms main battle tanks, rosaries our f14 tomcats, and letters our m4 assault rifles. yes letters- im gonna get tlc up and running- im gonna start tonight yes we are at war not by physical means but by spiritual and soon letter means[/quote] you rock,curtins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote]If we went to war against abortion, then the whole nation would collapse. [/quote] So what? any nation which murders it's own children doesn't desearve to continue in existance. [quote]It would set a very very dangerous precedent, not to mention completely and irrevocably divide the American nation[/quote] Agian so what? this is an extremly weak arguement, the continued existance of any nation doesn't have any moral wieght. [quote]Soon, we would be fighting over homosexuality, the seperation of church and state issues.[/quote] Okay. taken with in the realm of proportionality this is not really problem, some things are worth fighting for. [quote] You can't just fight over anything you want, even if it is the most important thing in the world.[/quote] This is an oxymoronic from the get go, the most important thing in the world is certianly not the same as "anything I want". [quote]Sometimes you have to use common sense. If we fought, our entire constitution would be null and void.[/quote] Well sense our contitution was evil from the beginning and has been turned progressively more evil, I agian don't see this as a terribly compeling arguement. [quote]Now, I am not for say, pharmacists filling out prescriptions for contraceptives, that is wrong, and you should stand up for yourself.[/quote] What does this have to do with anything, the pharmisist in question arn't murdering anyone are they? [quote]But in America, abortion is legal, and until people are forced to have abortion, and until it is directly affecting you, then we should not fight.[/quote] Wow you really really concern me-- unless it is effecting you you shouldn't do anything that is one of the most evil attitudes I have ever heard of. If someone where trying to murder me I would hope others wouldn't just walk on by because it didn't " affect" them. that is such an unremmitingly evil statement I can't imagine you even said it. [quote] Plus, we are beginning to turn the tide against the pro-death supporters, and I think that pretty soon, 50 years at the most, it will be gone. Civil war should be the last of the last resorts. [/quote] if abortion las t another 50 years in this country and there has not already been a civil war over it, then we will have all earned our place in the deepest circle of Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Don John, I'd be interested in your take on [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=26528"]The Boondock Saints[/url] even if you haven't seen the movie, just based on how i described it there i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 31 2004, 03:51 AM'] So what? any nation which murders it's own children doesn't desearve to continue in existance. [/quote] Possibly true, but in this case our government only tolerates it, does not force it. This is a huge distinction, but the only thing wrong here is the law permitting it, which tecnically there isn't one. Without the law, even if abortion is permitted, that's technically okay because it is embedded in the Natural Law, while human law is there to accompany the Natural Law, to help lead us to it. One would wish that in this case it really wasn't necessary. [quote][quote]It would set a very very dangerous precedent, not to mention completely and irrevocably divide the American nation.[/quote]Again so what? this is an extremly weak argument, the continued existence of any nation doesn't have any moral wieght.[/quote] Well, dividing the nation can cause more harm than good. How many men died during the Civil War? This is something that should be overcome with prayer and fasting first off. [quote][quote]Soon, we would be fighting over homosexuality, the seperation of church and state issues.[/quote]Okay. taken with in the realm of proportionality this is not really problem, some things are worth fighting for.[/quote] I don't disagree with you here, but I want to offer a word of warning about the idea of proportionality, in shich case the Revisionists take this out of context and Proportionalism really becomes a heresy if not handled correctly. I only say this because of your use of proportionality. [quote][quote]You can't just fight over anything you want, even if it is the most important thing in the world.[/quote]This is an oxymoronic from the get go, the most important thing in the world is certianly not the same as "anything I want".[/quote] LoL, just for fun I want to say that I want the Will of God, which I would consider the most important thing in the world...but I'm not sure I understand you here. [quote]Well sense our contitution was evil from the beginning and has been turned progressively more evil, I agian don't see this as a terribly compeling arguement.[/quote] I have stated multiple times that I haven't seen a good argument for this. This one you'll have to support straight from the Constitution itself, in light of the Admentments [i]and[/i] Declaration of Independence. [quote]What does this have to do with anything, the pharmisist in question arn't murdering anyone are they?[/quote] Technically they're contributing to an intrinsic evil, something I'm against (as I am against abortion), but not immoral for the state not to have a law against it. [quote][quote]But in America, abortion is legal, and until people are forced to have abortion, and until it is directly affecting you, then we should not fight.[/quote]Wow you really really concern me-- unless it is effecting you you shouldn't do anything that is one of the most evil attitudes I have ever heard of. If someone where trying to murder me I would hope others wouldn't just walk on by because it didn't " affect" them. that is such an unremmitingly evil statement I can't imagine you even said it.[/quote] I think we should do something about it because it's an intrinsically evil act and against the dignity of the human person. However, I think our fight must be with as remote of [b]material[/b] cooperation in evil as possible. [quote]if abortion las t another 50 years in this country and there has not already been a civil war over it, then we will have all earned our place in the deepest circle of Hell.[/quote] I dunno what to say about this actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 (edited) I am in no way condoning abortion at all. I want to make clear the fact that even though abortion is permitted, that does not make our goverment evil. China's government is evil; it forces the abortions. The Human Law will not encompass all of Natural Law, for it is unjust to do so. Now do I think we should take a stand against abortion? Absolutely! I used to, when I could, pray at the abortion clinics once a month and went to the March for Life each year. We definately need to take a stand! I just question how far our fighting should go, for even murdering an abortionist is an intrinsically evil act. I do not think that a war is remote enough. Too many innocent people would lose their lives. It is not necessary, for I see the decision changing soon. A war is only just if it as remote as possible. Edited December 31, 2004 by Q the Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote]the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain; [b]all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective; [/b] there must be serious prospects of success; [b]the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition[/b][/quote] I do not believe either of these will be followed in such a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Of all you proposing to go to "war," how many have actually stood vigil outside a clinic before? Believe me, that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote]All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective. The second condition establishes war as a last resort. If there are other practical and effective means of stopping the aggressor, they must be used. Alternatives include one-to-one diplomacy; international pressure; economic sanctions; and such tools as blockades, quarantines, covert actions, and small-scale raids that do not amount to a full-scale war effort. It is not necessary to employ all such methods before going to war. It is sufficient if rigorous consideration reveals them to be impractical or ineffective. They would be shown to be impractical if rigorous consideration revealed that, even though they might work in theory, they were not practically possible. They would be shown to be ineffective if they had little or no chance of stopping the aggression and preventing the damage that it will bring.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 If you want to stop an abortion give the mother a good reason not to kill her child. Find out the reasons and fix the complications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I agree! Otherwise I think you're asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmasser777 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Christ was the ultimate pacifist. War wasnt in his 'dictionary'. However it still crept into Church teaching. Btw would the war including pipe bombing, and shooting up doctors? Hmm u kno that sounds like terrorism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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