ICTHUS Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Dec 29 2004, 02:55 AM'] JMJ 12/29 - St. Thomas Becket Yeah, but you didn't didn't address my statement - were you forced to keep believing or did you accept the grace to believe? [/quote] I don't believe I 'accepted the grace'. My flesh wanted control at that point, and would have won the battle, had God not intervened. But, I would rather be forced by God's sweet grace to be a Christian, than be one of the poor lost wretches who does not know God's grace at all. Apart from God's quickening our hearts and overcoming the sin that keeps us enslaved to the Devil, we would all be lost. So, I suppose the question is: must we be forced, in a certain sense, to be Christians? The answer is yes - praise God that He does so, in His mercy! Edited December 29, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 28 2004, 09:02 PM'] Pio, the point I was trying to make is that the world, the flesh, and the devil, are a stronger offensive than I, a woefully sinful and stupid man, could ever hope to counter. Praise God that the battle, for me, does not depend on my own strength or holiness, but on God's mercy in enabling my perseverance. [/quote] I think this is an insult to God. If you resisted it is because he has built you up and made you strong. The scriptures tell us that he will not tempt us beyond what we can endure. Now that we endured does not mean that he is not the cause of our endurance but rather that he is the cause of our strength to endure. Growing in holliness is what it is called. Do you deny the need to grow in Holiness? I think of Ignatius being led off to the lions, requesting that his diocese not deliver him from the trial. That man had strength. Was it his own. No. It was what God built up in him, preparing him for the extreme trial he was about to endure. If you persevered it was because God made you strong. He may have given you some added strength at the time of your temptatoin, but he in fact had already done alot of work in you. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duarc Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Will you guys leave the poor man alone? He's on the right track and DIDN'T completely leave the christian church. Don't immedatly rag on him for setting himself up for attack when he tells us that god has prevented him from losing faith. He's not as ignorant as you think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 DUARC-- you don't know Ithcus as we do, his statement was an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 [quote name='duarc' date='Dec 30 2004, 12:04 PM'] Will you guys leave the poor man alone? He's on the right track and DIDN'T completely leave the christian church. Don't immedatly rag on him for setting himself up for attack when he tells us that god has prevented him from losing faith. He's not as ignorant as you think he is. [/quote] This would be true if it were another individual, ICTHUS has a long history on Phatmass. He used to be Catholic, then was "converted" to Protestantism, and continues to misinterpret Church doctrine even though we've told him otherwise over and over and over and over. The color is red, not pink, yet he continues to claim it's pink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 29 2004, 03:59 AM'] I don't believe I 'accepted the grace'. My flesh wanted control at that point, and would have won the battle, had God not intervened. But, I would rather be forced by God's sweet grace to be a Christian, than be one of the poor lost wretches who does not know God's grace at all. Apart from God's quickening our hearts and overcoming the sin that keeps us enslaved to the Devil, we would all be lost. So, I suppose the question is: must we be forced, in a certain sense, to be Christians? The answer is yes - praise God that He does so, in His mercy! [/quote] ICTHUS, God cannot force a person to love Him anymore than He can will Himself to sin. Just as Sin is antithetical to God, so too is compulsion antithetical to love. God,the being that than which nothing greater can be conceived, cannot sin - not because He is "incapable" but because if He did, He would not be God. So too with Love One cannot be "forced" to Love because if one [i]is[/i] forced, then it ceases to be Love. - Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 [quote]Christ is [i]really[/i], but not [i]substantially[/i], present, in the Eucharist.[/quote] Someone who claims to be an "Anglican" is making statements like this? My mother would tell him to become a Baptist and run him out of the church! :haha: Whew, there's no way my family would tolerate [i]that[/i] low church nonsense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSW Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I can relate to your temptations to apostasize from the Christian faith. There where many times in my life that I actually tried not to believe in God anymore but simply couldn't do it. I just couldn't imagine life without Christ even when I tried to live it without him. Something always pulled me back. By the way I'm Roman Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DojoGrant Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Anglicans, at least the very learned one that I spoke to back on BaptistBoard, denied justification by faith alone. Is that something you also deny? And please elaborate how love is forced. By nature, love is something that has to be freely given. Explain how you freely love God if God makes you love Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Icthus is a Calvinist before he is an Anglican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 [quote name='Benedict' date='Jan 7 2005, 07:15 PM'] Icthus is a Calvinist before he is an Anglican. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiZzGiG Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Icthus, I'm glad that you found your relationship with Christ again. But I agree with others when they say that love cannot be forced. And that Catholicism is the answer. Reading this thread makes me wonder what exactly Protestant views (like those of Icthus--well certain Protestant views) are. I'm taking a Catholicism class that makes me wonder how one could NOT be Catholic. But I have never heard an educated, well-thought out argument from a non-Catholic. All I usually get are various memorized Bible verses and little explanation. I need to go to some reading, methinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I agree with everyone else . God Bless, Reelguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathurian Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Icthus, let me ask you this. If God forces you to be Christian, why doesn't He force everybody? Why does He make people, all people whom He loves, and then save some and not others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='Cathurian' date='Jan 9 2005, 04:22 PM'] If God forces you to be Christian, why doesn't He force everybody? Why does He make people, all people whom He loves, and then save some and not others? [/quote] Are you sure you [i]really[/i] want to ask a Calvinist that question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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