Icthus.... Please show me...

[ironmonk]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 28 2004, 02:55 AM'] No, you beg the question by assuming that the catholic church subsists within the Church of Rome. The Anglican communion is a member of the universal church. [/quote]
I don't assume that, the Early Church Fathers have taught that since the first century.

Ignorance is not bliss... start studying.

Read the quotes above.

It is foolishness you write and everyone can see it because you have been proven wrong by the Early Church Fathers, not me.

St. Augustine, who went to Britain, a saint which the Anglican church recognizes as having the "Primative Faith" - Has proven you wrong.



It's almost comical how badly you set yourself up. If you only would study, you wouldn't be a laughing stock.

I'm trying to help you here, you keep writing things of your opinion without one shread of evidence to back you up. If you would study, maybe you would find some kind of truth that could help your stance, then I think most of us here would respect that.... You don't have to be a barking dog, get educated then try to debate.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 27 2004, 11:52 AM'] [b]Please show me:[/b] (in regards to the Early Church Fathers)[list]
[*]The Early Church Fathers that were never loyal to the Pope
[*]That did not believe in the Sacraments that can only be found in the Catholic Church
[*]That did not believe in Apostolic Succession
[*]That did not believe that Peter was the first leader of the Church
[*]That did not believe Mary was Ever Virgin
[*]That believe that other denominations are ok and holy
[/list]God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
Please show me: (in regards to the Early Church Fathers)

-The Early Church Fathers that were never loyal to the Pope
-That did not believe in the Sacraments that can only be found in the Catholic Church
-That did not believe in Apostolic Succession
-That did not believe that Peter was the first leader of the Church
-That did not believe Mary was Ever Virgin
-That believe that other denominations are ok and holy



The very Church you slander is the Church of the Early Church Fathers. If you don't believe that, you are a fool. The whole secular world believes it, and the educated protestants. Even by the father of the protestants who started the disent with his list of 95 lies and half truths.

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."
~ [b]Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John[/b]


[b]Roman Catholicism [/b]
[b] Encyclopædia Britannica Article [/b]
Christian church characterized by its uniform, highly developed doctrinal and organizational structure that traces its history to the Apostles of Jesus Christ in the 1st century AD. Along with Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism, it is one of the three major branches of Christianity.

[b]Structure of the church > Doctrinal basis > Apostolic succession[/b]
The claim of the Roman Catholic Church to be the one legitimate continuation of the community established by Jesus Christ is based on apostolic succession. This does not mean that there are apostles, nor does it mean that individual Apostles transmitted some or all of their commission to others. The officers of the church, the bishops, are a college (organized group or body) that continues the college of the Apostles, and the individual bishop is a successor of the Apostles only through his membership in the college.

The idea of apostolic succession appears in the writings of Irenaeus, a Church Father who died about 202. Against the Gnostics (dualistic sects that maintained that salvation is not from faith but from some esoteric knowledge) Irenaeus urged that the Catholic teaching was verified because a continuous succession of teachers, beginning with the Apostles, could be demonstrated. In the 3rd and 4th centuries problems of schism within churches were resolved by appealing to the power of orders (i.e., the powers a person has by reason of his ordination either as deacon, priest, or bishop) transmitted by the imposition of hands through a chain from the Apostles. Orders in turn empowered the subject to receive the power of jurisdiction (i.e., the powers an ordained person has by reason of his office).









All you can do is cry that we're wrong without a shred of evidence to back what you claim. Who's the fool? One who supplies document on document to prove his point, or the one who cries "your wrong" without any proof to back what they claim?


Where are the Early Church Fathers that back what you claim? Show us them please so I can understand and see some kind of Love for Christ. How can someone love Christ when they constantly attack His Church without any evidence against it?



God Bless,
ironmonk