P's and N's

[Phazzan]

According to statistics, psychopaths (ASPD) and narcissts (NPD) represent approximately 3% of the population. Therapy is supposedly futile to the treatment of these disorders since the sufferer sees nothing wrong with his/her behaviour therefore lacks any desire for change. My question is, are psychopaths who are trapped into their self grandious, superior, manipulative, destructive states of mind yet unable nor willing to change capable of reaching heaven? Are they evil, or just misunderstood?

[cooltuba]

[quote name='Phazzan' date='Dec 26 2004, 12:36 PM'] According to statistics, psychopaths (ASPD) and narcissts (NPD) represent approximately 3% of the population. Therapy is supposedly futile to the treatment of these disorders since the sufferer sees nothing wrong with his/her behaviour therefore lacks any desire for change. My question is, are psychopaths who are trapped into their self grandious, superior, manipulative, destructive states of mind yet unable nor willing to change capable of reaching heaven? Are they evil, or just misunderstood? [/quote]
I see it as an illness, and treat it as such. Would a person with lukemia have any less of a chance of Heaven?

Tim

[KnightoftheImmaculate1]

If the people in this situation choose what according to their conscience is good and avoid what is bad, then they are living according to the Natural Law that God writes upon all created human souls. An example that I hope will help is as follows: There is a woman living in a desolate region of Africa who has never been told that the teachings and practices of the Roman Catholic Church, the Church founded by Christ, are the means of attaining salvation, yet she goes about her life choosing to do what is good and avoiding what is bad according to her conscience, she will enter into Heaven upon her death. I hope this helped. If not you should get "THe Catechism of the Catholic Church." It will answer any questions you have about this area.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Phazzan' date='Dec 26 2004, 02:36 PM'] According to statistics, psychopaths (ASPD) and narcissts (NPD) represent approximately 3% of the population. Therapy is supposedly futile to the treatment of these disorders since the sufferer sees nothing wrong with his/her behaviour therefore lacks any desire for change. My question is, are psychopaths who are trapped into their self grandious, superior, manipulative, destructive states of mind yet unable nor willing to change capable of reaching heaven? Are they evil, or just misunderstood? [/quote]
Psychopaths still understand the concept of pain and consequences, and are capable of changing behavior to avoid it. They can modify their behavior if they have a good reason. They are flawed, but can get to heaven like everyone else.

[homeschoolmom]

Any particular reason you are asking about narcissists? :thinking:

[Phazzan]

[quote name='KnightoftheImmaculate1' date='Dec 26 2004, 02:49 PM'] If the people in this situation choose what according to their conscience is good and avoid what is bad [/quote]
Well psychopaths don't have a conscious, at least not a socially functioning one. Though they may know something is either right or wrong (by societies standards) they don't see why their actions can are evil, even when they cause obvious pain in their victims.

[quote]Would a person with lukemia have any less of a chance of Heaven?[/quote]
Kind of a silly comparison.

[thessalonian]

The Chuch teaches that God gives all men sufficient grace to get to heaven. If they are in the state they are in due to ignorance I will leave him as the judge. If they are in that state because of paths they are chosen then they will go to hell. Once again, I leave him as the judge of that. If they are in hell it is their own damned fault. Excuse the pun. Hope it doesn't offend.

One more point. There have been addictoins in my life that by my own power I could not have overcome. But by the grace of God all can be healed. I know that as a fact. By the way a narcicist cost me 7 g's last winter in court when I was unemployed. I do not consider myself his judge. Fortunately that frees me up from bitterness.

God bless

Edited December 27, 2004 by thessalonian