Can you imagine this!

[crusader1234]

I'm with Ironmonk on this one.

While we don't know for sure, I'm almost positive that they go to heaven, eventually.

Anyways, I think that most of the people that are up in arms about abortion haven't done too much. Most of the people that would support a war probably have not bothered to protest in front of clinics, that sort of thing. The Church calls us to work for the avoidance of war, so until you've picketed an abortion clinic, lets not throw around 'War' like its our only option.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 21 2004, 10:30 PM'] Image this... Really see it... Please think of it... Visualize what I'm about to write.

Your driving down the road, and there's a red brick building.




This building is a post-abortion clinic.

At the legalized post-abortion clinic, mothers or fathers can bring their unwanted or troublesome children.

You see a woman get out of her car and walk in she's holding one hand of a 4 year old little girl. The girl has a teddy bear in her other hand. She's a cute little girl, blue eyes, blond hair, and wants to grow up to be a doctor so that she can make people better.

When they enter the clinic, they're greated by smiling nurses and doctors. A nurse takes them into a room, then the doctor enters a short while later.

The doctor brings with him a large blender. The mother then hands the little girl to the doctor. The doctor turns on the blender, picks the girl up and places her feet into the blender to end her life.

If there were clinics where 3 year old children could be taken, and their mother could legally put that child legs first into a blender.

On the way out the woman writes the office clerk a check for $250, the clerk thanks her, tells her to come again, and to imagine all the money that she will save over the next fourteen years.





Now... if that was real...

what would you do?
How would you act?
What would you say to people who supported that?

How does it make you feel?

Think about it.


[b]Now... that is how you should feel about abortion clinics.[/b]









People here with younger siblings... with children of your own... yourself if you're under 31 years old...

Planned Parenthood... and all the abortion doctors... wanted to kill you before you were born for $250. They wanted to kill your children for $250. They wanted to kill your younger sibling for $250. They think that innocent life is worth $250.


Abortion should never have been allowed to exist anywhere in this world. We should have went to war with the first country that started it. We should have went to war... taken over and ended abortion.

Abortion clinics are less humane than the Nazi concentration camps of WWII.

I want war. I want war on everyone who supports abortion... from the half wit that believes a mother needs to choose if it's murder to the "doctor" that performs them.

I want the Pope to say take arms.


I want war.


Some may say that I shouldn't because violence is never the answer... I say they are geniuses for not knowing what they speak of. Violence has solved many things... Two instances... WWI and WWII. There are many instances it has solved things in the Bible. Violence can be just when it is to save innocent lives. These abortionists are unjust agressors.

If the war would meet the just criteria, then it very well could solve it.


I want war.


I do not act on what I want because the Pope has said not too.
If a Pope ever does - I will be the first in line.
I think that war on abortion would be totally just if there was a way to be able to win it.

Until then, I pray for it's end.

We must all act towards abortion as if it were young children to teens being taken to these clinics.

We must speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. There is no social justice as long as abortion is allowed.

The next time you hear people talk about abortion, please think of the post-abortion clinic. Ask them to think of it. The only difference between the unborn baby and a child is age.


[b]Proverbs 31:8[/b]
Open thy mouth for the dumb, and for the causes of all the children that pass.
[b]9[/b]Open thy mouth, decree that which is just, and do justice to the needy and poor.




God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
Max, while abortion horrifies me just as much as it does you (I have Spina Bifida, and according to some stats that someone on this site was kind enough to dig up for me, in England, 90% of children diagnosed pre-natally with SB are aborted - who the hell do people think they are to determine 'quality of life?') I fail to see how you're getting from pre-natal abortion clinics to murder clinics where parents take their little children to be murdered. Again, I'm just as horrified by abortion as you are, but this image, horrifying as it is, requires a gigantic leap of logic.

[Crusader_4]

I agree with crusader1234 that we must first exhaust all means and that in the USA in particular there is still peaceful hope. As well the Pope has said violence is not too be used and thus i feel we need to remain loyal with the pontiff.

[popestpiusx]

I say we kidnap them all at the same time (it would take some serious coordination) and send them to an island of cannibals.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='Dec 24 2004, 01:06 AM'] I agree with crusader1234 that we must first exhaust all means and that in the USA in particular there is still peaceful hope. As well the Pope has said violence is not too be used and thus i feel we need to remain loyal with the pontiff. [/quote]
If this is i ndeed what the Roman Bishop has said, then I agree with him. I think its stupid, for those who purport to be pro-life, to go around killing people, like those who bomb abortion clinics.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]I agree with crusader1234 that we must first exhaust all means and that in the USA in particular there is still peaceful hope.
[/quote]

There are 45,000,000 dead babies that would disagree.

[quote] As well the Pope has said violence is not too be used and thus i feel we need to remain loyal with the pontiff.[/quote]

Please show me this command because while many people have said this I have yet to see it anywhere.


[quote]As far as I know, we're not talking about assurance, we're talking possibility.
[/quote]


possibliltity is not what you are talking about, you have said directly that you believe they [i] [b]will[/b][/i] have the chance to go to heaven, that is dangerously close to universalistic heresy, and/ or pelagianism As I have said before Trent infallablly declared baptism was [i]neccessary[/i] for salvation, not that it was neccessary for those who had heard the gospel but that it was neccessary, that no man could be saved without it.

[crusader1234]

I'm sure that the 45 000 000 dead babies would rather see us protest abortion and actually make an effort that isn't glamorized and filled with bloodlust. A war would be totally evil and sinful when there are nonviolent possibilities.

[cooltuba]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Dec 24 2004, 12:55 AM'] Most of the people that would support a war probably have not bothered to protest in front of clinics, that sort of thing. [/quote]
I, for one, have not protested. I've prayed; I've done sidewalk counseling for those who've been receptive, but not protested. We actually choose clinics that the protestant groups don't go to, because when there are protesters there, women tend to walk quickly in and out so that they are not yelled at or have to look at grotesque pictures. I've seen the effects of protesting, and the effects of prayer (especially the Rosary) and counseling to the willing, and I must say that reverant prayer is much more effective than protesting. Women who are not completely sure that they are making the right decision will approach a group of people on their knees praying the Rosary wheras they are literally driven to move more quickly into the clinic and get the procedure done when there are protestors there.

Peace,

Tim

Edited December 24, 2004 by cooltuba

[goldenchild17]

[quote]They would be required to ask the mother if she wants her baby to be given anesthesia prior to the abortion.[/quote]

This line was great. That could really get a person thinking.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Dec 24 2004, 12:20 PM']
This line was great. That could really get a person thinking. [/quote]
Agreed. That's just flooping stupid.

But at least it shows that abortionists have some form of compassion.

[journeyman]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Dec 24 2004, 12:55 AM']
Anyways, I think that most of the people that are up in arms about abortion haven't done too much. Most of the people that would support a war probably have not bothered to protest in front of clinics, that sort of thing. The Church calls us to work for the avoidance of war, so until you've picketed an abortion clinic, lets not throw around 'War' like its our only option. [/quote]
"War" is not the only option . . . but as with the "downtrodden terrorists", it appears to be the only many can afford. Picketing has gotten a bad reputation, for reasons others have noted.

I'm only projecting, but I don't think most of the mothers want to kill a baby . . . they don't see an alternative, and so have to rationalize that it isn't a baby. They need help in finding a job, finding health insurance, finding housing, finishing school, to have the baby. No help, no hope. No hope, no choice.

Detour for a moment of drive by economics. How often have you driven down the highway and seen a McDonalds (or any other burger joint) and across the street/down the street/within sight also seen a Pizza Hut or Chick Fil A or Taco Bell (non burger joint). Basic economic premise: McDonalds found a good location to feed hungry people. But what if they don't want burgers? Let's put our choice near their location, and the hungry people who don't want burgers will turn into our store.

Imagine another scenario. Next door to, or across the street/down the street from every abortion clinic was an adoption clinic. Pro life counselling available. Adoption counselling available. Adoption placement available. Education opportunities that can continue during pregnancy. Job training referrals available. Housing referrals available. Shelter referral available. Support, love, hope - - a real opportunity for a different choice, with a different result.

Catholic Charities and the protestant groups already offer many, if not all, of these and a host of other services that make it "possible" for the mother to make a different choice. What an opportunity for an ecumenical movement. What an opportunity for the Church to take the lead in the anti-abortion movement with a positive alternative.

Imagine that. If you can imagine it, you can make it real.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='journeyman' date='Dec 24 2004, 12:49 PM'] "War" is not the only option . . . but as with the "downtrodden terrorists", it appears to be the only many can afford. Picketing has gotten a bad reputation, for reasons others have noted.

I'm only projecting, but I don't think most of the mothers want to kill a baby . . . they don't see an alternative, and so have to rationalize that it isn't a baby. They need help in finding a job, finding health insurance, finding housing, finishing school, to have the baby. No help, no hope. No hope, no choice.

Detour for a moment of drive by economics. How often have you driven down the highway and seen a McDonalds (or any other burger joint) and across the street/down the street/within sight also seen a Pizza Hut or Chick Fil A or Taco Bell (non burger joint). Basic economic premise: McDonalds found a good location to feed hungry people. But what if they don't want burgers? Let's put our choice near their location, and the hungry people who don't want burgers will turn into our store.

Imagine another scenario. Next door to, or across the street/down the street from every abortion clinic was an adoption clinic. Pro life counselling available. Adoption counselling available. Adoption placement available. Education opportunities that can continue during pregnancy. Job training referrals available. Housing referrals available. Shelter referral available. Support, love, hope - - a real opportunity for a different choice, with a different result.

Catholic Charities and the protestant groups already offer many, if not all, of these and a host of other services that make it "possible" for the mother to make a different choice. What an opportunity for an ecumenical movement. What an opportunity for the Church to take the lead in the anti-abortion movement with a positive alternative.

Imagine that. If you can imagine it, you can make it real. [/quote]
That, my friend, was a freaking sweet post.

[journeyman]

Thank you

Pass the idea on to your church, your parish, your Bishop . . . if only one person says it, they're crazy . . . if two say it, they're partners . . . if three say it, it's a conspiracy . . . but if 3,000 or 3,000,000 say . . . it's a movement (thank you Arlo Guthrie)

Saving children costs more than throwing them away . . . it costs time, effort, and yes, money. Can we afford NOT to pay the price?

[ICTHUS]

I'm not sure if we have dedicated abortion clinics in my city, as such. No doubt the hospitals perform them, however..

[cooltuba]

[quote name='journeyman' date='Dec 24 2004, 12:49 PM'] Next door to, or across the street/down the street from every abortion clinic was an adoption clinic. Pro life counselling available. Adoption counselling available. Adoption placement available. Education opportunities that can continue during pregnancy. Job training referrals available. Housing referrals available. Shelter referral available. Support, love, hope - - a real opportunity for a different choice, with a different result. [/quote]
We have "Project Gabriel" in Dallas (I don't know if it's nationwide or just a Dallas thing). I think two of them are quite close to clinics, and they offer all of the services you mentioned. It is a great idea, but I know it's hard to get space close to the clinics. Even when we're not at clinics with a Project Gabriel nearby, we have phamplets and buisness cards to give out.

Thanks for the great post.

Tim