Can you imagine this!

[ironmonk]

Image this... Really see it... Please think of it... Visualize what I'm about to write.

Your driving down the road, and there's a red brick building.




This building is a post-abortion clinic.

At the legalized post-abortion clinic, mothers or fathers can bring their unwanted or troublesome children.

You see a woman get out of her car and walk in she's holding one hand of a 4 year old little girl. The girl has a teddy bear in her other hand. She's a cute little girl, blue eyes, blond hair, and wants to grow up to be a doctor so that she can make people better.

When they enter the clinic, they're greated by smiling nurses and doctors. A nurse takes them into a room, then the doctor enters a short while later.

The doctor brings with him a large blender. The mother then hands the little girl to the doctor. The doctor turns on the blender, picks the girl up and places her feet into the blender to end her life.

If there were clinics where 3 year old children could be taken, and their mother could legally put that child legs first into a blender.

On the way out the woman writes the office clerk a check for $250, the clerk thanks her, tells her to come again, and to imagine all the money that she will save over the next fourteen years.





Now... if that was real...

what would you do?
How would you act?
What would you say to people who supported that?

How does it make you feel?

Think about it.


[b]Now... that is how you should feel about abortion clinics.[/b]





[quote][b]Senator Will Reintroduce Measure Highlighting Fetal Pain During Abortion[/b]
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- A leading pro-life senator says he will reintroduce a measure during the next session of Congress that will focus on the pain an unborn child experiences during an abortion procedure. Sen. Sam Brownback, a Kansas Republican, will put forward the Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act that would require abortion practitioners to explain to women considering an abortion after 20 weeks into the pregnancy that unborn children feel intense pain. They would be required to ask the mother if she wants her baby to be given anesthesia prior to the abortion. Brownback told the Washington Post that the presidential election results show Americans favor such legislation. "This was a very clear election cycle... The country has shifted. You've got a pro-life electorate," Brownback said. An April Zogby poll shows that 77% of Americans back "laws requiring that women who are 20 weeks or more along in their pregnancy be given information about fetal pain before having an abortion." Bush administration attorneys are credited with introducing the concept of fetal pain during initial hearings into lawsuits filed by abortion advocates seeking to overturn the ban on partial-birth abortions. During the trial, Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand, a pediatrician at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, said he believes [url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat430.html"]unborn children suffer "severe and excruciating" pain[/url] because "the fetus is conscious" during the abortion procedure. Pro-life groups hope the information will lead some women to decide in favor of carrying the pregnancy to term instead of having an abortion. [url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat1056.html"]Read the complete story.[/url][/quote]



People here with younger siblings... with children of your own... yourself if you're under 31 years old...

Planned Parenthood... and all the abortion doctors... wanted to kill you before you were born for $250. They wanted to kill your children for $250. They wanted to kill your younger sibling for $250. They think that innocent life is worth $250.


Abortion should never have been allowed to exist anywhere in this world. We should have went to war with the first country that started it. We should have went to war... taken over and ended abortion.

Abortion clinics are less humane than the Nazi concentration camps of WWII.

I want war. I want war on everyone who supports abortion... from the half wit that believes a mother needs to choose if it's murder to the "doctor" that performs them.

I want the Pope to say take arms.


I want war.


Some may say that I shouldn't because violence is never the answer... I say they are geniuses for not knowing what they speak of. Violence has solved many things... Two instances... WWI and WWII. There are many instances it has solved things in the Bible. Violence can be just when it is to save innocent lives. These abortionists are unjust agressors.

If the war would meet the just criteria, then it very well could solve it.


I want war.


I do not act on what I want because the Pope has said not too.
If a Pope ever does - I will be the first in line.
I think that war on abortion would be totally just if there was a way to be able to win it.

Until then, I pray for it's end.

We must all act towards abortion as if it were young children to teens being taken to these clinics.

We must speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. There is no social justice as long as abortion is allowed.

The next time you hear people talk about abortion, please think of the post-abortion clinic. Ask them to think of it. The only difference between the unborn baby and a child is age.


[b]Proverbs 31:8[/b]
Open thy mouth for the dumb, and for the causes of all the children that pass.
[b]9[/b]Open thy mouth, decree that which is just, and do justice to the needy and poor.




God Bless,
ironmonk

[Don John of Austria]

IronMonk I can't help but find it amusing that this is exactly whatI have been saying for years, and most on this board would tell me that it was not analgus, I'll say it agian if you where driveing to work and they where haveing elimenate youor 3 year old in the park day, and you saw those 3 year olds die, would you go to work, or go get a gun. Whats the differance between the two? One you don't have to see the other you do.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 22 2004, 01:10 AM'] IronMonk I can't help but find it amusing that this is exactly whatI have been saying for years, and most on this board would tell me that it was not analgus, I'll say it agian if you where driveing to work and they where haveing elimenate youor 3 year old in the park day, and you saw those 3 year olds die, would you go to work, or go get a gun. Whats the differance between the two? One you don't have to see the other you do. [/quote]
The difference is we don't know if there were enough of us who felt this way... and we have to have a chance to win.

I want to... but we are slaves to the tyranny of liberal judges.

We need a Moses to rain plagues on all abortion supporters.

Killing one doctor or destroying one clinic won't save lives.... the woman will go to another doctor or clinic.

We would have to be able to wipe them all at once for it to be productive... or at least enough that they would quit practice.

We would need an army to save the lives of the innocent.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[cooltuba]

Wow. Ironmonk, that was great. If the Pope ever declared a war on Abortion, I would be second in line. There's not many causes I'd be willing to give my life for, but the lives of millions of innocents are certainly worth it.

BTW...have you read the aborted babies thread? I'm REALLY curious as to your opinion.

Peace,

Tim

BTW...Even if you support the "aborted babies burn" argument, I still won't lose any respect for you.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='cooltuba' date='Dec 22 2004, 01:32 AM'] Wow. Ironmonk, that was great. If the Pope ever declared a war on Abortion, I would be second in line. There's not many causes I'd be willing to give my life for, but the lives of millions of innocents are certainly worth it.

BTW...have you read the aborted babies thread? I'm REALLY curious as to your opinion.

Peace,

Tim

BTW...Even if you support the "aborted babies burn" argument, I still won't lose any respect for you. [/quote]
Thanks bro... I thought I've posted on it. I posted on one or two of them floating around...

Thread 1:
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=25918&view=findpost&p=457017"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=457017[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=25918&view=findpost&p=457029"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=457029[/url]


Thread 2:
[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=25750&view=findpost&p=457488"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=457488[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=25750&view=findpost&p=457695"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=457695[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=25750&view=findpost&p=457726"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=457726[/url]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=25750&view=findpost&p=457731"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=457731[/url]




Baiscally, I believe what the Church teaches...

We know they don't go to Heaven, at least not right away.

We know that they don't go to Hell.

We know that on Judgment day those in Hell/Limbo/Hades (whatever you want to call it) will go before Christ, and some will go to Heaven, and some might not. Those who are not written in the book of life will not go to Heaven.


.... i have two children there


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Andrea348]

WOW

Now if only people who supported abortion got their hands on that scenario.

[cooltuba]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 21 2004, 11:59 PM'] Thanks bro... I thought I've posted on it. I posted on one or two of them floating around...

.... i have two children there


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
Sorry, I missed them. I answered the poll, posted my opinion, and read some of the other posts above (on the 4th page) and got into it from there. I just couldn't believe it when DJ actually used the phrase "I don't see why it's so hard for you to accept that the babies burn". I didn't take the time to look back at the beginning of the thread. I read your arguments, and they're essentially what I was trying to get across, except more put-together and with references.

I'm so sorry to hear that, ironmonk. They will be forever in my prayers, as will you.

May the Peace of Christ be with you,

Tim

[ironmonk]

After further reflection... I don't want war. I wrote in anger.

[b]St. Matt 25:40 [/b]
[color=red]And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.' [/color]


I believe that those who support the murder of the innocent could be considered 'least brothers'.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited December 22, 2004 by ironmonk

[Mary's Knight, La]

I understand your anger on this and your wish to go to war on it, I wish there were a clear way to confront them with the evil they do. I hope if there were abortion would end almost instantly.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote] just couldn't believe it when DJ actually used the phrase "I don't see why it's so hard for you to accept that the babies burn". [/quote]


I never said that, I just went back and checked to make sure in a fit of irratation I didn't say something like that , but i didn't what i did say was this:

[quote]I'll make it very simple I don't believe it is loving to tell people that Baptism is not needed to be saved when it is. More than that I think that it is this False belief that " the poor innocent babies couldn't possibly burn, they must go to heaven" is a lie we tell ourselves to excuse our lack of action involving abortion, it helps us live with ourselves knowing that the unborn are murdered in our own cities, how could we live with ourselves if all those babies go to hell. How much easier it is to go to work[i] "knowing" [/i]that they must go to heaven. That is not loving, that like all lies is monsterous; at best the babies still tainted by original sin go to some sort of Limbo, the Cannot enjoy the Beatific vision, And I pray they do not burn, but if those are the only to options, then Hell is the only option left to us. I sincerly pray that there is a Limbo but that is the best I can hope for and still call myself orthodox; it makes abortion seem even more horrible doesn't it.

[/quote]


That is not the same as what you said I said. Not at all. Now if you can find me where I said that I will of course recind this statement, but I don't remember saying that, nor could I find that when I skimmed over my post.

[cooltuba]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 23 2004, 04:41 AM']

I never said that, I just went back and checked to make sure in a fit of irratation I didn't say something like that , but i didn't what i did say was this:




That is not the same as what you said I said. Not at all. Now if you can find me where I said that I will of course recind this statement, but I don't remember saying that, nor could I find that when I skimmed over my post. [/quote]
I know I read those words, because I had to walk away from the computer and smoke a cigarette to calm down. It wasn't a reply to me; I read it right after I submitted my first post, which I posted before reading anyone else's posts. It was a reply to Delivery Boy on the 4th page, it's not there now, but I know that I read those words in a post by you. I may be wrong, it doesn't even matter now. You can't say that aborted babies go to hell, you can't say that they don't go to Heaven. I can't say that you don't have to be babtized to go to heaven, and I can't say for sure that aborted babies go to Heaven. Let's just move on.

Peace,

Tim

[ironmonk]

[quote name='cooltuba' date='Dec 23 2004, 12:44 PM'] I know I read those words, because I had to walk away from the computer and smoke a cigarette to calm down. It wasn't a reply to me; I read it right after I submitted my first post, which I posted before reading anyone else's posts. It was a reply to Delivery Boy on the 4th page, it's not there now, but I know that I read those words in a post by you. I may be wrong, it doesn't even matter now. You can't say that aborted babies go to hell, you can't say that they don't go to Heaven. I can't say that you don't have to be babtized to go to heaven, and I can't say for sure that aborted babies go to Heaven. Let's just move on.

Peace,

Tim [/quote]
Since it was brought up here, I'll post a little tidbit of facts....


Basically Baptism is a necessity for people that can be baptized. Babies and Unborn Babies can be saved.


[b]1257 [/b]
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 [u][b]Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.[/b][/u]62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.


[i][color=blue]The Gospel cannot be proclaimed to the unborn or infants.[/color][/i]



[b]1260 [/b]
"Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 [u][b]Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved.[/b][/u] It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.


[b]1281 [/b]
Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16).

[b]1283 [/b]
With respect to children who have died without Baptism, the liturgy of the Church invites us to trust in God's mercy and to pray for their salvation.





Many truths not specifically said in Church teaching can be drawn from logical conclusion of what has been said.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Don John of Austria]

coolltuba, it's not there because I didn't say it.


Ironmonk-- you should read the whole statement.

[QUOTE]1257
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 [color=red]The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit.[/color]" God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.



More than that as hard is this for so many to accept here the CCC is not infallable and the Council of Trent is.

[Robbi]

If a crusade was made for war against abortionists and there clinics, I want to be in the front line! :angry:

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 23 2004, 08:16 PM'] coolltuba, it's not there because I didn't say it.


Ironmonk-- you should read the whole statement.

[QUOTE]1257
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 [color=red]The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit.[/color]" God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.



More than that as hard is this for so many to accept here the CCC is not infallable and the Council of Trent is. [/quote]
Brother...

note the word: "assures"


As far as I know, we're not talking about assurance, we're talking possibility.


God Bless,
ironmonk