Evolution

[Guest mtc254]

My name is Sarah, and I am a freshman.

Ever wonder why it is OK to learn and discuss evolution in school, but not how God created the universe? Well...I have been contemplating that for a few weeks (since I have to learn about it in biology) now and I just don't understand it! We had to watch and take notes on this Nova video about Darwin and his theory of evolution, and I was very upset by it. It showed how some scientists believe, for example, how a dog-like creature evolved into present day dolphins and whales. Right, like they expect me to believe that when I have read Genesis. I think some people confronted our teacher about it because the next day, he was gave a speech about how he is not forcing us to believe this, but since this is a biology class, we have to learn about it. Apparently, (according to him) in the curriculum, he has to teach all "proven facts" in biology, by most scientists.

I would not have a problem learning about all of this stuff if we got to show a movie about The Story of Creation, and other students who are not Catholic, or any other religion got to hear about it this way. It is very upsetting to me that I do not have a decision about whether or not I have to take notes and test on something I have no belief in.

Sincerely, Sarah

[Krush2k2]

Man a good book this reminds me of is by LEE STROBEL called THE CASE FOR CREATION

[drewmeister2]

While I agree, that would be nice to show something from the Bible, the Pope hasn't necessarily condemned evolution, as far as I know. I have heard from my theology teacher in a previous year that the Pope did say that if evolution did actually occur, then it could have only happened because God allowed it to happen. In other words, it couldn't have happened without God. God bless

[Iacobus]

[quote name='drewmeister2' date='Dec 20 2004, 08:50 PM'] While I agree, that would be nice to show something from the Bible, the Pope hasn't necessarily condemned evolution, as far as I know. I have heard from my theology teacher in a previous year that the Pope did say that if evolution did actually occur, then it could have only happened because God allowed it to happen. In other words, it couldn't have happened without God. God bless [/quote]
The pope said "Evolution is more than a hypothesis" and should be looked into. Nothing seems to disprove evolution scientificly nor does it seem to contrdict anything in the Bible.

Moreover, you are confusing evolution with creation of life. Evolution says "things change." In fact, Darwin argued there was a God whom made things and made them change. Ha.

God Bless.

Questions? PM me, I have too much time and I love, I mean LOVE, evolution.

[conservativecatholic]

The belief in evolution is in no way wrong. The Church states that it is to be studied with an open mind. By the way, I took Biology two years ago as a freshman. We had to watch the same Nova video. lol. It's quite interesting.

Edited December 21, 2004 by conservativecatholic

[Theologian in Training]

The Pope also stated that we cannot look at Genesis as a scientific fact of evolution. He, as many others, advocates a theory called "historical aetiology." It is a term used when speaking both about creation and Eschatology, and is the result of their being no eyewitnesses to either. Essentially, historical aetiology is deducing from what we have and are now as a basis for what occurred before we knew these things. In other words, since Baptism removes the stain of Original Sin and its consequences, we are given an indication of what it was like before the Fall.

The same logic is applied to creation. We can deduce the story of creation from the state of the person we are now.

Although, at the outset, it is an intereting theory, I am not sure I am in complete agreement. Granted, God is at the center but we enter into a lot of speculative theology which sometimes confuses more than helps.

Just my .02

BTW, if you want some good books on the topic there are a few:

"Did Darwin Get it Right" George S. Johnston
"Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds" Philip Johnson
"Darwin on Trial" Philip Johnson
"Intelligent Design" William Dembski
"Darwin's Black Box" Michael Behe

And there are more and more titles coming out each day.

Hope that helps

God Bless

[BurkeFan]

A course I took on evolution and Christian theology has made be quite bitter towards evolution. More properly speaking, it was the professor whose actions I became bitter in response to.

A book I would recommend, but could be a bit too heavy is Fulton Sheen's God and Intelligence.

[Krush2k2]

If Evolution is correct, then wouldn't that make Adam and Eve not literal?
Wouldnt that cause for more than just one man and one woman at that one time?

And if that makes Adam and Eve not literal then whats the basis for Original Sin?

Also if Adam and Eve is literal, how do you explain the fact that groups of early humans had no langauge at first but that it slowly developed being spoken after a long period of time. Yet Adam and Eve as we know spoke language-then what happened during that gap of humans not being able to develop lingusitics? Why would thier even be a gap if Adam and Eve spoke language as the first humans?

Edited January 20, 2005 by Krush2k2

[littlewilli]

In my middle school religion class we learned that even though the body may have evolved...the human soul has always been the same...in the image and likeness of God

[Balthazor]

My roommate used to yell at me all the time over this. Honestly I do not base my faith on it so it and I really do not dwell on it, so I felt free to pick on him and shake him up, eh he is Lutheran, I had to pick on him.

Anyway even the most staunch of creationists admit that there is evolution on a micro-level. I mean look at the isles of Galapagos and you see it, it is very hard to deny.

But there problem is the whole monkey into man thing, that man could not have evolved from apes. That is what people have a problem with. It throws the dignity of man into jeopardy and such.

Anyway in school I was taught both Judeo-Christian Creation and evolution as theory, I also heard Native American Creation stories. They did not endorse one over the other they left our us and our parents to decide the truth. I think that my humble public school education did a good job, we discussed it all, as theory. Personally I do not know exactly what route God chose to put man on this Earth but I do know that I am here, and that God exists and He is good. Which is good enough for me. But i must admit it is a fun ponder.

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Dec 21 2004, 12:05 AM'] The belief in evolution is in no way wrong. The Church states that it is to be studied with an open mind. By the way, I took Biology two years ago as a freshman. We had to watch the same Nova video. lol. It's quite interesting. [/quote]
I'm not against learning about what Evolution is, but I don't like it being taught like it's fact.

And I don't want to start an argument, but saying that there is nothing wrong in believing in Evolution, is just like saying you don't believe in the Genesis creation which is taught in the Sacred Scripture.

Gen 1:27 - "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female."

So...you calling God a monkey?


And don't forget this one: Gen 2:7 - "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the Breath of Life; and man became a living soul."


I don't see anywhere in there about God making man change from a monkey then breathing in a soul... This is a crude post, but it's true.

And before anyone asks, yes, I'm a Catholic.

[Guest Aluigi]

Adam and Eve were two actual human beings and from them we all descended. This is Catholic Doctrine that must be believed. These two original humans disobeyed God and that was original sin, that must be believed.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='Jan 19 2005, 08:43 PM'] I'm not against learning about what Evolution is, but I don't like it being taught like it's fact.

And I don't want to start an argument, but saying that there is nothing wrong in believing in Evolution, is just like saying you don't believe in the Genesis creation which is taught in the Sacred Scripture.

Gen 1:27 - "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female."

So...you calling God a monkey?


And don't forget this one: Gen 2:7 - "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the Breath of Life; and man became a living soul."


I don't see anywhere in there about God making man change from a monkey then breathing in a soul... This is a crude post, but it's true.

And before anyone asks, yes, I'm a Catholic. [/quote]
Sure, God could be a monkey looking being, I don't know if he is or is not. Seeing as we don't even know that God has a physical being, I would question how we look like Him physical. I would be more inclined to say that our souls were created in the likeness of God.

Lets not teach Evolution as "fact" but lets not teach any theories either. Because theories are not fact. Yes.... yeh.

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jan 19 2005, 09:07 PM'] Sure, God could be a monkey looking being, I don't know if he is or is not. Seeing as we don't even know that God has a physical being, I would question how we look like Him physical. I would be more inclined to say that our souls were created in the likeness of God.

Lets not teach Evolution as "fact" but lets not teach any theories either. Because theories are not fact. Yes.... yeh. [/quote]
I'm with you Iacobus. Evolution is very clearly a valid scientific theory with LOADS of evidence backing it up. I tend to take almost all of the old testament as allegory anyways...

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 19 2005, 09:59 PM']Adam and Eve were two actual human beings and from them we all descended.  This is Catholic Doctrine that must be believed.  These two original humans disobeyed God and that was original sin, that must be believed.[/quote]
Right on.

[quote]Sure, God could be a monkey looking being, I don't know if he is or is not. Seeing as we don't even know that God has a physical being, I would question how we look like Him physical. I would be more inclined to say that our souls were created in the likeness of God.

Lets not teach Evolution as "fact" but lets not teach any theories either. Because theories are not fact. Yes.... yeh. 
[/quote]


There's only theory and fact, in science. I'm not against science, and honestly there is more proof of Creationism than Evolution. It depends where you get your sources. If you're getting them from the world, then of course you're gonna get Evolution having tons of proof, cause simply, most of it are lies. Especially since the one very important artifact they've never found yet, was a transitional fossle. If it took millions upon millions of years for creatures to gradually evolve, then along those years we would have found some odd mutation of a rabbit turning into a dog or something. You can argue all you want, but even Darwin himself admitted the big gap in the inability to find any transitional fossiles.

I personally believe the earth is millions of years old, but civilization is like 4000-6000 years old at max. I've done research to help prove this and about the pre-adamic civilization, but that is a totally different subject.

Just remember, a lie told often enough, becomes the truth. The Catholic Doctrine strictly teaches of Creationism, just as Aluigi said.

And if God is a monkey-type being, why didn't Jesus then come down as a monkey-type person? And also your answer doesn't explain the part where scripture says, "God made man in HIS image." So if we are made in the image, as in, the likness of God, then what do you think God looks like?

Answer: Just look at Jesus.

And if you want to say that is just how our soul looks like, then why did Jesus even bother ascending into heaven in His body?


Btw Sarah you're right. If they are just trying to show you what Evolution is, then why not also show you what Creation is? They have an excuse for everything, but that's only because they can't stand the Light and Truth. They want nothing to do with God because the world hates what is real Truth. They hated Jesus, they killed Him for it, so what do you think they'll do to us?

Edited January 20, 2005 by Archangel Raphael