Lil Red Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 is murder ever justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Hehe...Zach and I were debating this the other night... I think you need to define murder first, and very specifically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 no MURDER is never justified. you should have made it KILLING, because sometimes killing is justified murder is not, the commandment is explicit: thou shalt not murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Dec 17 2004, 05:57 PM'] no MURDER is never justified. you should have made it KILLING, because sometimes killing is justified murder is not, the commandment is explicit: thou shalt not murder. [/quote] I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Dec 17 2004, 05:57 PM'] no MURDER is never justified. you should have made it KILLING, because sometimes killing is justified murder is not, the commandment is explicit: thou shalt not murder. [/quote] fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Murder is a synthetic term for intentionally killing an innocent person. That's an intrinsic evil, so it can never be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 :shootme: :leave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 murder is never justified, because murder is the unjust taking of another's life. Killing can be justified in self-defense or in war, though not wars of conquest or genocide. The distinction must be made between murder and killing. Vengeance killing is never good. It serves our notion of justice, not God's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 [quote name='Lil Red' date='Dec 17 2004, 08:20 PM'] :shootme: :leave: [/quote] dont leave. come back!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamweaver Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Yes, murder is the deliberate taking of an innocent's life, and can never be justified. Killing (in self defense, in some cases of war) is justified. Another interesting debate. If you could go back into time, would it be justifiable to kill Hitler before he came to power and killed nearly all the Jews? Hopefully the correct answer isn't too hard to figure out. I'd be interested in how non-religious people would answer these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 CCC teaching on Murder: 2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65 2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow: If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66 2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility. 2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person's death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger. The acceptance by human society of murderous famines, without efforts to remedy them, is a scandalous injustice and a grave offense. Those whose usurious and avaricious dealings lead to the hunger and death of their brethren in the human family indirectly commit homicide, which is imputable to them.71 Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone's death, even without the intention to do so. I stand with the Church's teaching on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltuba Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 LilRed, Don't you just love semantics? Everyone takes your EXACT word and completely misses the point. I know you meant killing, and I think killing can be justified. The reasons are all stated above. One thing I'd like to adress here is the death penalty. I remember reading an abundance of posts about Scott Peterson getting the death penalty and how the state is justified in imposing that sentance on people. My message to those people is to read "Humanae Vitae". The Pope says that all life is sacred and in times such as ours we are never justified in killing a criminal because we have the means and ways to keep them seperated from society for the rest of their natural lives. I agree, and on a more personal level, I am against the death penalty because it grants criminals one of the greatest luxuries man can ever hope for: knowing well in advance the day and hour he is to meet his maker. Ex: Timothy McVeigh went to confession with a Catholic priest one hour before he was executed. If he was truly repentant, he's in Heaven right now. How many of us (the non murderous population) have that luxury? Not many. Also, I'd rather see them rotting in prision, miserable for the rest of their lives than have them take the easy way out. It's not even a painful death like their victims suffered. It's the most humane, peaceful way to go. (lethal injection, that is) Well, I've rambled for long enough. Discuss amongst yourselves. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 [quote name='cooltuba' date='Dec 18 2004, 01:32 AM'] LilRed, Don't you just love semantics? Everyone takes your EXACT word and completely misses the point. [/quote] yeah, that's what this was about :shootme: :leave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Red re -do your poll and I can delete this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmasser777 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 From what I was taught at school (Aus, might have a different tense in the US and elsewhere). Murder cannot be justified, since murder installs a tense of innocence on the victim. Killing can be justified, quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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