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Abortion debate.


reelguy227

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Jess,
Welcome to Phatmass, and to the debate table. I hope you plan on sticking around cause sometimes it can get real interesting here, and you are sure to learn alot.
Ive gone from Christian(no denomination) to agnostic, to Protestant, to full blown Catholic in a matter of a few short years. This place has educated me more than any of the folks here will ever realize.

Phatmasser777,
I am curious as to your response to my post above.
Again, I have two nieces that are both handicapped. Had they been born in Germany during Hilter's reign then neither one of them would still be here. If they hadnt been experimented on first, they eventually would have been murdered, all for the sake of advancing the Fatherland.

Neither one can successfully care for themselves and will forever require some sort of aid. Neither one can shop for themseves, prepare their own meals, dress themselves, bathe themselves, or do any of the other things that you or I take for granted on a daily basis.
Do they deserve to live? According to your Bio-ethicists and such.
Are they a burden to society? According to your Bio-ethicists and such.
Are they considered human? According to your Bio-ethicists and such.

I have grown more, in knowing these very two special angels that were given to my family as a gift from God, then any other person that I have ever met or will ever meet in my life. We, as a family, were forced (not in a bad way) to slow down and appreciate life more, since we cannot hurry these two angels in their work here on Earth. And that is what they are...both of them.
They have shown us to appreciate every little thing, many of which most of us overlook. A simple word that most children can say at the age of 1 or 2 would take both of these angels several more years to articulate. But hearing my name called for the first time by my one niece was such a joy, that I cried. She was 10 before she could say my name.

Can you ever imagine not hearing your name being called by someone who you know truly loves YOU.
She sees me, not the cool aunt that the other speaks of, but me. She instinctively knows how upset I am that she will be moving across country and that I wont see her on a daily basis. She doesnt hesitate to put her arms around me and console me (in her own way) patting me on the head and telling me "its ok, aunt bertie".

When I tell her that I love her, she just looks at me and says, "I know"

Now...Do you or any of those who are part of the culture of death, have the right to decide whether she or her sister should live or die? Is she less of person because she is confined to a wheelchair? Is she less of a person because she cannot care for herself? Is she less human because she cannot articulate words like you and I? Is she or her sister less human because neither can make decisions as to what is best for them? Is she or her sister less human because they will always require assistance of some sort not of their own power?
If you answer yes to any of the above...then what gives you the right to make such a decision?


Again, show up at my home to take these angels from me, and I will not hesitate to draw my sword.

Pax.

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KnightoftheImmaculate1

amen Quietfire, I would be right there with you giving my life for your family or anyone who would be murdered by these people. We defeated Hitler before, with Mary we will finish him for good. She has the most power with the Son, just imagine if He sees her upset...I wouldn't want to be the agitator like these who spread the false culture of Death. The gates of Hell shall not prevail!!

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Phatmasser777

[quote name='KnightoftheImmaculate1' date='Dec 26 2004, 02:40 PM'] Pm777, if you say that history is both trustworthy and not at the same time you are contradicting yourself, therefore you are the extremist that doesn't think logically. If 99% of history is not trustworthy then why would you be able to determine what is the true 1%? Also, when you spoke of interpretation of Holy Scripture, if you don't believe what DonAustria said about what history comes from, you would not have any Scripture to interpret. In another post you mentioned that "all forms of truth are relative" what do you mean by relative? If you wish to accuse others of extremism you need to prove you point and define your words with absolute certainty and not let passion interfere. [/quote]
Your reading too much into it like that other guy... :rolleyes:

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Phatmasser777

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Dec 27 2004, 10:38 AM'] The culture of death(bio-ethicists and the like) do not override the laws of God.
THEY can keep saying that it does all THEY want, but it will never change the truth.
THEY have proven nothing.
No human, no matter how educated he is, has the right to decide who lives and who dies. And ultimately, that is what they are doing.
Let them show up at my house and tell me that my handicapped neices are a burden to society, and that they should be spared the pain of living a life that doesnt meet these folks requirement, then they will have to go through me first. AND I will be justified in taking a life that attempts to take the life of one of my nieces.
Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell mankind who should or shouldnt live? And how dare you or anyone else reduce a human life to a 'blob', an inconvenience to society, or a burden to a family.


Try again. [/quote]
Law of God doesnt exist. The laws of a country override any religion.

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cmotherofpirl

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Dec 28 2004, 02:57 AM'] Law of God doesnt exist. The laws of a country override any religion. [/quote]
lol
It hasn't worked that way for 2000 years, what makes you think its gonna start now...

I ama Catholic before I am any nationality.

Edited by cmotherofpirl
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[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Dec 28 2004, 05:36 AM'] Yes they do, and always will :) [/quote]
Would you mind explaining yourself?

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If a nation passed a law to allow even encourage the use of murder in settling disputes... Should that law override any other law of religion?

Sincerely,
Ianny01

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[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Dec 28 2004, 05:36 AM'] Yes they do, and always will :) [/quote]
No they never have.
History has shown that time and time again.
Ceaser.
Napolian.
Hilter.
Stalin.
Communism.

Shall I continue?


When the state (country, laws of man) passes laws that contradict the natural law then the natural law will win everytime. Im sorry if it doesnt happen overnight to satisfy your immediate attention, but if you study history and have any knowledge of what man is essential, and existential then you would understand that any law passed or enforced by man that goes against the natural law will lose...everytime.

Hilter thought it right to murder millions of Jews because HE didnt consider them human. In his mind, they were less than human, less than dogs even. Obviously he got a bunch of people to agree with him. But were do you draw the line? Obviously, he didnt even know there was 'a line' to go over. Anyone not fitting in his eyes was unecessary and eliminated. He had planned on making a master race starting with a youth so ferocious likened to a tidal wave. Well, it SEEMED like a great idea until he started showing up at the homes of the same people who were supporting him. Hmmm, somehow they suddenly didnt fit into his master race either. The problem with his master race plan was that even HE didnt fit into his master race plan.

Somewhere, he lost touch with what man is. And that man is to be reverenced. This is God's second commandment. I must love my neighbor as myself. Because of my love for God, I do this because of his love for me. If I love my family more than myself, then there is nothing I wont do for their safety and welfare. In return, given that I have taught my family the same, those same gifts are returned to me as well. Because of my love for my family, my love is also able to extend outside of my family to not only those around me but even to those whom I dont even know...without diminishing my love for my family in the process.
It is like a fire burning. Warmest at the center and radiating outward. The heat can warm far enough away from the center without putting the fire out. The deeper my love, the warmer the fire.
Mans laws cannot take this into effect until the state understands what man is, and unfortunately, the state would rather 'create'/'mold' man to what it wants rather than take into account that man is not moldable, and that it should be the other way around.
While a state is necessary, it isnt a necessary evil.
But understand this..when a state crosses over the line and passes or enforces laws that are contrary to God, then its only a matter of time that the State will fail.

The times are never so bad that a good man cannot live in them.

Pax.

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KnightoftheImmaculate1

777, you still did not answer my question about "all forms of truth are relative." Why do you avoid answering? Do you realize that without the Law of God you would not exist? You think very irrationally if you think that the Law of God, which is higher than that of man, can truly be under the rule of man. No effect can be greater than it's cause. Man's law would not exist without God's Law bringing it into existence, therefore you are wrong and always will be. You shouldn't attempt to argue any point if you cannot think reasonably. Please answer my question about "all forms of truth are relative." Abortion will end whether you like it or not. Don't you think it is quite cowardly to kill another for your own gain, even if it means your health?

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Phatmasser777

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 28 2004, 08:12 AM'] lol
It hasn't worked that way for 2000 years, what makes you think its gonna start now...

I ama Catholic before I am any nationality. [/quote]
Yeah it has, ever-heard of SECULARISM?

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Phatmasser777

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Dec 28 2004, 03:26 PM'] No they never have.
History has shown that time and time again.
Ceaser.
Napolian.
Hilter.
Stalin.
Communism.

Shall I continue?
[/quote]
?
Hitler
Stalin
Communism?

:lol:

==========================
[b]KEEP YOUR RELIGION
THE HELL OUTTA MY GOVT![/b]

==========================

Love that bumper sticker slogan :D

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