cmotherofpirl Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Define tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Jesus loved all, He forgave all who asked for it, but he was not tolerant of people he constantly chastised and critisied and demanded that people seek forgiveness through repentance He did not tolerate sin he condemned it, he did not tolerat sinners he chastised them and if the y repented as He loved them He forgave them. He did not tolerate their behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 I have been thinking about this question. I think that we are called to love one another, even our enemies. This is a lot more than just being tolerant. In fact you can be tolerant towards someone and not love them. I also think at times the loving thing to do is to be intolerant. For example, if a family member has an addiction there may be times when you have to tell him to leave the family until he decides to get help and stop. Or another example would be the saying, “the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” I define virtue as a habit that is directed towards the good. Being tolerant is not always directed towards the good so it is not a virtue. I do not think you can always separate the sinner from the sin in regards to tolerance. I guess I would define tolerance as accepting/ignoring a behavior, lifestyle, or person that does not fit ones tradition, culture, values, and/or morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysologus Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 It's almost unbelievable. Don John actually makes ironmonk look LIBERAL! Christ goes way beyond being tolerant! He's loving! It's true, though, he doesn't tolerate sin. No one should tolerate sin, but St. Augustine said to "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Is that not tolerance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Everyone believes in some degree of tolerance or everyone would constantly be on a rampage. It is a virtue b/c a civilized society could not function w/o some degree of tolerance. All of you believe tolerance is a virtue if you like it or not. The Iraquis who are doing everything possible to get the US out of Bagdad, or the Jews and Palestinians on the West Bank or the Catholics and Protestants in N. Ireland who don't take a second glance at blown up buildings/people of the opposite faith - that's life w/o tolerance. God Bless :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Tolerance itslef is not a virtue. Patience is a virtue, however. And it is an aspect of tolerance. Be patient with the sinner, but do NOT be tolerant. In other words, we cannot tolerate sinners, because they sin. But we can be patient with them in hopes that they will NOT sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 "Toleration in general signifies patient forbearance in the presence of an evil which one is unable or unwilling to prevent. By religious toleration is understood the magnanimous indulgence which one shows towards a religion other than his own, accompanied by the moral determination to leave it and its adherents unmolested in private and public, although internally one views it with complete disapproval as a "false faith"." Considered in the abstract, the general idea of toleration contains two chief moments: (a) the existence of something which is regarded as an evil by the tolerating subject; (B) the magnanimous determination not to interfere with the evil, but to allow it to run its course without molestation. Viewed under the former aspect, toleration is akin to patience which also connotes an attitude of forbearance in the face of an evil. Patience, however, is rather the endurance of physical sufferings (e. g. misfortune, sickness), toleration of ethical evils. When not an evil but some real good (e. g. truth or virtue) is in question, toleration gives way to interior approbation and external promotion of such good. No one will say: "We must show toleration towards science or patriotism", for both these objects are recognized by all as laudable and desirable. A second idea akin to toleration is connivance (conniventia, dissimulatio), which means the deliberate closing of one's eyes to evil conditions so as not to be obliged to take measures against them. The distinction between connivance and toleration lies in the fact that the latter not only closes its eyes to the tolerated evil, but also openly concedes it complete liberty of action and freedom to spread. It is inDouche in this deliberate granting of liberty that the characteristic quality of toleration lies. For the intolerant person also regards what opposes him as an evil and a source of annoyance; but, it is only by combating it overtly or secretly, that he shows his intolerance. Not all intolerance, however, is a vice, nor is all tolerance a virtue. On the contrary, an exaggerated tolerance may easily amount to a vice, while intolerance keeping within just limits may be a virtue. This statement is substantially in agreement with Aristotle's definition that virtue in general holds the right mean between two extremes which are as such both vices. Thus the intolerance shown by parents towards grave faults in their children is an obligation imposed by conscience, although, if it be carried to the extreme of cruelty, it degenerates into a vice. On the other hand, excessive toleration towards an evil becomes under certain circumstances a vice, for example when secular rulers look with folded arms upon public immorality. Catholic Encyclopedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I'm with Don John on this one. I think "Tolerance" especially as it is currently defined is a great vice, a sin, evil. Christ was not "tolerant" he loved. I think Dave had it right when he said, "Hate the sin, Love the Sinner" . . . because that's exactly what Christ did, "hate" and "love." We are not called to "tolerate" sinners, we are called to love thim. Tolerance is the opposite of active love. If we tolerate something we are, in fact, indifferent to it. We make the conscience decision to not let something "bother us." Or to consider it outside of our attention. I don't tolerate anyone, or anything . . . I'm pretty hot or cold, very little lukewarm in my life. I love sinners. I go to them, care for them, eat with them, teach them, love them! I do not tolerate sinners, nor for that matter, do I tolerate virtuous people. I love both of them. I might be patient with their shortcomings, and patient with their misunderstandings, and patient with their sinfulness, but I hate their sins. And I love them. Tolerance is the tool of the Devil. It is the idea that we must not be actively involved with something. That we should ignore the things we don't agree with or like. Wrong answer. The lukewarm will be spewed from God's mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 :lol: Tolerance is the Devil, Bobby Boucher! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What if we rephrased the question? Would you like to be tolerated? Not me, I want to be loved, accepted, embraced, even despiised, but never tolerated. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What if we rephrased the question? Would you like to be tolerated? Not me, I want to be loved, accepted, embraced, even despiised, but never tolerated. peace... Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual_Arsonist Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Tolerance is a virue only if it is for the person's good. If it is not, then you must not tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 It's almost unbelievable. Don John actually makes ironmonk look LIBERAL! Christ goes way beyond being tolerant! He's loving! It's true, though, he doesn't tolerate sin. No one should tolerate sin, but St. Augustine said to "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Is that not tolerance? Don, Jesus was tolerant of the person. Jesus was not tolerant of the sin. He judged when needed. He can do that, You can not. If you read my posts, I made it perfectly clear. NO ONE on this board stated that He was tolerant of sin. Chrysologus, I don't look liberal at all... It's very clear to me, that Tolerance is needed in some cases... tolerance as in not judging, not shoving it down thier throat, but speaking the truth, in love. Tolerate the person, if you cannot tolerate the person, and make them leave, how would one win souls for Christ. Some people have a hard time understanding things because of various reasons. The greatest commandment is love, we're not here to tell people that they are evil people and to leave our sight... We're here to win souls for Christ. How do we win souls for Christ, we tolerate people that do not have Christ, we evangelize by our actions and words. We do not say accept Christ or get out of here.... Saving souls takes time... if we do not tolerate those who sin, then we will never be able to win souls for Christ. If we do not tolerate those who sin, how can we tolerate ourselves? We are no better than the next person. They are our brothers and sisters. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Crist insulted, chastised, beat, and ridiculed people. these are not the marks of tolerance. Christ said what was True, did what was rightous and made no appologies, HE was not tolerate He never tolerated anyone He challenged them. He loved them. And as a Christian I am Oblogated to Judge all sorts of thingsJUST NOT THE FINAL FATE OF SOMEONE, which I do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) Crist insulted, chastised, beat, and ridiculed people. these are not the marks of tolerance. Christ said what was True, did what was rightous and made no appologies, HE was not tolerate He never tolerated anyone He challenged them. He loved them. And as a Christian I am Oblogated to Judge all sorts of thingsJUST NOT THE FINAL FATE OF SOMEONE, which I do not. Beat? - What bible are you reading? If He was intolerant, the adulterous woman would not have been able to approach Him, nor any of the other sinners. He was intolerant of sin. He was tolerant of the person... I'm done with this one, if you can't see it, that's your problem. We should be tolerant.... and Christ was tolerant of people... end of story. I listen to the Church: Life and Dignity of the Human Person. Each person possesses a basic dignity that comes from God, not from any human quality or accomplishment. As Christians, we are called to act with tolerance and respect. http://www.usccb.org/cchd/multimediaold.htm "It is our fervent hope and our prayer that out of the present crisis may come anew day of religious tolerance among all the many diverse communities that make up your great nation," Archbishop McCarrick told the Indian ambassador. http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/1999/99-037.htm "I trust that you will impress upon the Chinese leadership the fact that amicable relations with this country, a nation founded on the principles of religious freedom and tolerance, will depend very significantly on their ability to leave behind a shameful past of religious persecution," said Bishop Anthony M. Pilla, President of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, in a letter to President Clinton. ... Both Bishops were critical of China's treatment of religious liberty, labeling the nation's history a "sorry record of intolerance and persecution" and "a serious blot on the image of that government." http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/1998/98-142.htm The Pope continued that what these prisoners want “is to participate actively in life with the opportunity to speak their own mind with respect and tolerance.” Speaking directly to the Cuban authorities, Pope John Paul encouraged “efforts to reinsert prisoners into society. This is a gesture of high humanity and a seed of reconciliation, a gesture which honors the authority promoting it and strengthens social harmony in the country.” http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/1998/98-040a.htm "We pray for a spirit of tolerance in this time of war. It is too easy for rears about the war to turn into discrimination against our Muslim and Arab neighbors her and abroad. We must guard our hearts against hate. " http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/peace/sullivan.htm And finally, an October 14 comment on Aristide's return, expressing the hope that it signals "a genuine new beginning for justice, peace and reconciliation...Great efforts at tolerance, cooperation and good faith will be demanded of every institution and sector in Haiti. http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/updat295.htm I trust that you will impress upon the Chinese leadership the fact that amicable relations with this country, a nation founded on the principles of religious freedom and tolerance, will depend very significantly on their ability to leave behind a shameful past of religious persecution and join the family of nations that respects the rights of each to worship God as conscience dictates. http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/pilla98.htm To teach compassion, generosity, tolerance, peace, forgiveness, acceptance, and love as gospel values and to identify ourselves as Christians require us to live these values in our interactions with young people and in our community life. http://www.usccb.org/laity/youth/renewingp...t3community.htm We assert the vision of community, tolerance, compassion, justice, and the sacredness of human life, which lies at the heart of all our religious traditions. http://www.usccb.org/comm/nationaltragedy/.../interfaith.htm -ironmonk Edited October 17, 2003 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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