Help Stop Female Genital Mutilation

[Freaky Chik]

Actually, I've learnt about these things at school. The women don't want them. As you would know the women are a minority, guys have all the power etc etc etc.... The women are hurting,not just physically but emotionally... and they want a way out... but right now they can do nothing cos to them, they are just chicks, and they've always been taught that chicks cannot do anything. If they even try to stop something like that, then their lives become threatened by the males... they would die if they tried speaking out. So they simply don't. Also, do you wonder why generally it's the males that go to school there (if they can afford it) and not females?

Cos they're female.

Females are worth nothing over there.

[dUSt]

I cannot believe, dUSt, that you are treating this situation so lightly.  Perhaps if it were your wife or mother, you would react differently?

If I was a man in that tribe, then my wife would probably have this done to her. But, since I live in Texas, my wife or mother have nothing to do with this.

Actually, I think we should go a step higher and start castrating the pigs until they stop mutilating their women.  But that's just me.

I don't know how effective you'd be at getting this accomplished.

Personally, I don't think we should put an end to the less-than-hygienic circumcision until FGM is stopped.

Well you just made my point.

You have placed an order of importance based on the severity of the act. Exactly like I did with my original reply when I said we need to end abortion first.

I'm assuming you feel that FGM is more horrendous than abortion?

Now, someone asked how the United States can put a stop to it.  Well, the U.S. can't effectively put a stop to it, but they can reduce the practice.  What we need to do is impose economic sanctions on governments that allow or turn a blind eye to the practice. In the following countries, 90% or more women are subjected to FGM: Djibouti, Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, and Sudan.  You can't tell me that these countries couldn't do something about this widespread practice. It's not a question of inability, it's a question of unwillingess.  Perhaps when they're not receiving any aid and/or when they're unable to trade with significant members of the international community, this issue will become more important to them.

I don't think that depriving the country even further will produce the outcome you'd hope it would. I think the effects of sanctions would do more harm than good.

It's very possible that some of these people believe it's in the best interest of their women to do this.

I would think this is a give-in.

If we sit here and have ideological fights about whether or not abortion is worse, we solve nothing about either abortion or FGM. This petition is part of the solution I've proposed.  If you have a better idea, let's hear it.

Okay. Introduce them to Christ. That would work better.

Hopefully the Catholic Church will join the battle against FGM, rather than continuing to bellow about abortion as if that's the only problem in the world.

Of course it's not the only problem. It's the biggest problem. You yourself stated that we shouldn't worry about putting an end to less-than-hygenic circumcisions until we put an end to FGM. It's okay for you to prioritize the severity of problems, yet, you bash the Church for doing the same thing?

[Don John of Austria]

I have met african women who did want them and were glad they had had it done. So what. I think there a lot of things going on in africa we should be stoping, I'm in, just have to stop slavery of Christians while your at it.

[Good Friday]

My God, you people are treating this issue like it's nothing. Like it's just some cultural thing that they do. In case you missed it from my original post, this is their cultural thing that they're entitled to: Infibulation (a.k.a. Pharaonic circumcision) which is a clitoridectomy follow by sewing up of the vulva. A small opening is left to allow urine and menstrual blood to pass. A second operation is done later in life to reverse some of the damage. In some cultures, the woman is cut open by her husband on their wedding night with a double edged dagger. She may be sewn up again if her husband leaves on a long trip.

The "unsanitary" conditions of male circumcision pales in comparison to Female Genital Mutilation. Male circumcision actually has positive health effects for men, whereas FGM has negative health effects for women and can (and often does) result in death.

Don't you care about these women? And, furthermore, what do you think your Lord and Savior would think about this practice?

[jmjtina]

I don't think we should be taking it lightly, although I do feel we should have our priorties straight. If we can't even protect the innocent unborn Amercian lives, and the many women who are victimized by abortion in our country, then how can we ever hope to protect anybody else?

Peace and Love.

[Good Friday]

I'm pro-choice, so I totally disagree with the abortion thing. But that's not the point. I choose to fight the battle of Female Genital Mutilation. Y'all choose to fight the battle of abortion, and hey, whatever floats your boats. My question is, why can you only fight the battle of abortion? Why can you not also fight the battle of FGM? Is it really necessary to stop one before we can try to stop the other? Can't y'all multi-task or something?

When I was Catholic, I cared about a number of issues and decicated time to them all. The pro-life cause was one of them. Was I wrong for not devoting all of my time to the pro-life cause and devoting some of it to other worthy causes?

I just don't understand why no one on this thread with the exception of Kilroy, Hyper, LTNgurl, and Freaky Chik cares much about this FGM thing. You don't think the petition will work? Fine. But would it kill you to sign it anyway?

[jmjtina]

I'm sorry you feel that way about abortion. You say you're pro-choice? Well, it's thier choice to allow such a practice......so let them do it. Does that mean because they have the choice, it makes it right? NO!!!

Don't you see you carry a double standard? When it comes to the MURDER of INNOCENT unborn babies , you'll let innocent babies die, mother's be victimized in your own backyard, turn a deaf ear, yet speak up for ppl across the world? What will Christ say to that?

Mother Teresa once told an American who wanted to come and live in Calcutta and dedicate her life to the cause. She told her, "Go back home and take care of your of the evils that happen in your own backyard."

The reason we fight for the unborn CONSTANTLY is because it's the evil that is killing our country......the war on the woman and the unborn. The war no one wants to acknowlgde.

Peace and Love.

Edited October 15, 2003 by jmjtina

[Good Friday]

Not getting into the abortion discussion here. This thread is about Female Genital Mutilation. If someone wants to discuss abortion, please feel free to start a thread in the Debate Table and I may join you (or I may not). This thread was never intended for any kind of debate, it was intended to post a petition -- hence why I put it in Open Mic instead of the Debate Table.

If someone wants to debate abortion, feel free. Do it here even, or you can do it in the Debate Table.

If someone wants to debate FGM, feel free. Do it here even, or you can do it in the Debate Table.

But I am not participating in anymore debate right now. I wanted to post this petition, I've done that. It's your choice whether or not to sign it. I signed it, I hope others will. The end.

[jasJis]

Good Friday,

You simply enrage me with your self-righteousness that cause you to take unwarrented pride in your own opinion. I grew up with 4 sisters and have two teenage daughters. I am not above, and have used physical violence to protect and support my sisters, mother, and daughter. I'm glad that you are spouting your vileness over the internet because I could not restrain myself in a Christian manner if we were face to face. You are supporting evil and have twisted it in your mind with doing good.

Both genitalia mutilation, the pill, and abortion have something in common. It diminishes and demeans the inherent worth of a woman being female. Women are not men, men are not women. You don't see the hypocrasy of your statements. You have an idea and and opinion and want to force it on others. US econimic sanctions is forced will just like the men who are forcing abortions, birth control, and genital mutilation. You've finally reached the point that you disgust and seriously offend me.

[edited by dUSt because of an unnecessary personal attack]

Greg,

Brother to Connie, Mydge, DeDe, and Lori. Father to Jessica and Natalie. Husband of Sharon. Son of Margaret. Grandson of Lillian and Harriet.

Edited October 16, 2003 by dUSt

[ironmonk]

nate,

[edited by dUSt for personal attacks]

Maybe everyone here would like to know why you stay on the board?

What is the definition of a fool?

If there is no God, then FGM is not wrong, it's might makes right...

"Don't kill Iraqi's that are trying to kill you or kill other people in their country, but please kill a few tribal men for FGM" --- what do they call it when someone is a contradiction to themselves?

-ironmonk

[Azriel]

Deep breathes guys, please.

Not that I don't understand your outrage.

I do.

But, I worry. There should be no need for heartattacks up in here.

[Jake Huether]

The "unsanitary" conditions of male circumcision pales in comparison to Female Genital Mutilation

And Female Genital Mutilation pales in comparison to abortion.

I totally understand where you're coming from. But I see that you are doing exactly what you are mad at dUSt for doing!

Sure, we should strive to stop ALL abominable acts. But where do we begin?

You say, "forget about unsanitary male circumcision" because it is less important than FGM. But yet, you are attacking us for saying - in sum - "forget about FGM" because it's less important than abortion.

Either we start at the top: abortion. or we start at the bottom: things like unsanityary male circumcision. But you are suggesting starting in the middle ground, simply becuase it has touched a nerve. Hey, there are also tribal sects that force girls to wear lip plates! Let's start there. Or how about we start at the abomination of ritualistic rapes in certain countries.

We should pluck the LOG of abortion out of our own eyes befor we barge in on other "abominable" culturs. At leat they don't kill millions of innocent babies yearly.

[Jake Huether]

I'm pro-choice, so I totally disagree with the abortion thing

Dude, where's the virtual KO button when you need it.

So, you are all for WOMEN having a choice to KILL / MURDER / RIP HEADS OFF / CRUSH SKULLS / COMPLETLY SEPERATE THE LEGS, ARMS, VAGINA, ET ALL FROM THE BODY.

Yet, you come in hear and tell us MEN and WOMEN don't have a CHOICE to circumcise their daughters.

For the Love of God, Nathan, ...

I'm praying for you, and pinching my tongue very hard right now...

[BLAZEr]

Actually, I think we should go a step higher and start castrating the pigs until they stop mutilating their women.  But that's just me.

Oh Yeah, that makes sense. "I oppose the senseless and destructive mutilation of women, however I hereby support the senseless and destructive mutilation of men."

Ummm . . . are you seeking justice or this just the latest fad . . . "People of the World Unite and stope femalie mutilation." Did you read about this in some magazine? And by the way, FYI: The first groups to start exposing this barbaric (yes I think its barbaric) practice were Catholic Missionaries in these countries. If it wasn't for the fact that the Church has been sending people to Africa to help them learn about God, you wouldn't even know about this practice.

What we need to do is impose economic sanctions on governments that allow or turn a blind eye to the practice.  In the following countries, 90% or more women are subjected to FGM: Djibouti, Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, and Sudan. 

Are you nuts? Look at the list of countries you submitted. They are the poorest and most mismanaged and oppressed countries in Africa. If we impose sanctions on these countries their poor will starve to death and die! Do you really think starving them to death is better than allowing Femal Genital Mutilation? You must be the most intolerant and insensitive person in the world if you seriously believe this is a solution.

[Dave]

All right, Nathan, I know I said I wasn't going to get involved, but now I gotta open my mouth.

I've thought about it, and now I'm afraid I have to agree with dUSt, Max, Jake, etc. I shouldn't have signed that petition after all. Yes, female genital mutilation is horrible. But abortion is far worse! Ever heard the saying, "Charity begins at home"? Well, it means we have to start by showing charity to those in our own backyard in order for us to truly be able to show it to those far off. And the U.S. really needs a lesson in charity toward the most defenseless -- the unborn!

And I'm really sorry to hear that you think it's OK to kill babies. Nate, you know I love ya, but I find it hypocritical when you advocate protecting women from certain barbaric practices yet at the same time advocate FAR WORSE barbaric practices.

I know you say you don't want prayers, but I'm doing it anyway. You're putting your soul in danger.

And before you start accusing us of being intolerant and uncaring, let me remind you that all this time you've been demanding tolerance and yet offering none.

Edited October 15, 2003 by Dave