Closure for the marijuana thread.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='cooltuba' date='Dec 15 2004, 02:05 AM'] I don't know, but apparently they've been pm'ed or it's been reported using the "report" button.  *says a Hail Mary for non-closure* [/quote]
I never said that this particular thread has been reported (thats not to say that no one has expressed concerns to other mods in private), just that this happens and when we mods have to edit/delete/close things we get alot of flack and no one else realizes whats going on behind the scenes. I don't plan on closing the thread (not yet anyway, if it becomes a problem then I will), I know jasJis has been working on a response for a couple days now and I think he at least deserves to be able to post it.

Edited December 15, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS

[cooltuba]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Dec 15 2004, 01:12 AM'] I don't plan on closing the thread (not yet anyway, if it becomes a problem then I will), I know jasJis has been working on a response for a couple days now and I think he at least deserves to be able to post it. [/quote]
Thanks. My prayers have been answered!

--Tim

[cooltuba]

BTW... Iceprincess, do you have a personal opinion on marijuana? Do you see what I'm trying to say? I just don't want to come across as trying to justify illegal drug use. I really think that we could do so much more good as Catholics who meet someone who has a marijuana problem if we focus on the truth rather than tell them lies they know are lies (from personal experience). When a marijuana user hears the gateway argument and the mutagen argument and all of the other arguements, they instantly stop listening to you.

Thanks again.

Edited December 15, 2004 by cooltuba

[IcePrincessKRS]

My personal opinion... well, I'm not as studied on the topic as some people, but my opinion is that it should stay illegal. I think the harm it causes outweighs any good it might cause (which, honestly, I'm skeptical about). My only experience is with people I know who have used the stuff and the way they are when using it... it ain't pretty. Even if they aren't high all the time, even if its "only" 1 joint, I think one is one too many.

[Oik]

I disagree with your statistics.

Results on the effects of marijuana in conjuction with deaths are inconclusive.
Since marijuana affects the body differently, its incorrect to judge it by the same standards as other drugs.

Marijuana impairs motor functions.

Marijuana causes (can stimulate the growth of) cancer.

Personally, I don't want to have to deal with Second hand smoke and the contact high of pot.

Edited December 15, 2004 by Oik

[cooltuba]

[quote]
My personal opinion... well, I'm not as studied on the topic as some people, but my opinion is that it should stay illegal. I think the harm it causes outweighs any good it might cause (which, honestly, I'm skeptical about). My only experience is with people I know who have used the stuff and the way they are when using it... it ain't pretty. Even if they aren't high all the time, even if its "only" 1 joint, I think one is one too many.[/quote]

Thanks. Just curious. That's what I figured.

Peace,

Tim

Edited December 15, 2004 by cooltuba

[cooltuba]

[quote name='Oik' date='Dec 15 2004, 01:48 AM'] Results on the effects of marijuana in conjuction with deaths are inconclusive.
Since marijuana affects the body differently, its incorrect to judge it by the same standards as other drugs.

Marijuana impairs motor functions.

Marijuana causes (can stimulate the growth of) cancer.

Personally, I don't want to have to deal with Second hand smoke and the contact high of pot. [/quote]
No argument here that marijuana impairs motor functions. To the degree of alcohol? No.

Let's see the studies showing marijuana causing or promoting cancer. I can tell you that smoked marijuana has the same cancer-causing effect of cigarettes, but i've never heard the stimulation of growth of cancer argument. I'd love to see the research. *edit* [b]Especially[/b] since marijuana is perscribed (where legal) to cancer patients. */edit*

If the US adopted similar laws as the Netherlands, the only way you'd be exposed to marijuana smoke is if you went into a place was exclusively for marijuana smoking (like a bar, but with marijuana instead of alcohol). Easy enough to avoid.

How does marijuana affect the body differently? All drugs (read: ALL) bind to receptors in various parts of the body (mostly the brain).

I agree that stats on death rates and marijuana are inconclusive, and I've said so, and said to disreguard them in other posts. I think I'll go back and edit that post, since it's the ONE opinion I've posted, and everyone wants to latch on to that one and disreguard the pages of scientific research that I've posted.

Peace,

Tim

Edited December 15, 2004 by cooltuba

[Oik]

I wish industrial hemp was legal.

I don't see why recreational use of marijuana is good.

I don't see what purpose it would serve.

Cigrette/Cigar smoking is on the decline, and marijuana would have the same effects in that respect, so why legalise it?

Why even decriminalise it?

The netherlands are a bad example to compare anything to.
Legalised distitution!

[cooltuba]

[quote name='Oik' date='Dec 15 2004, 02:13 AM'] I wish industrial hemp was legal.

I don't see why recreational use of marijuana is good.

I don't see what purpose it would serve.

Cigrette/Cigar smoking is on the decline, and marijuana would have the same effects in that respect, so why legalise it?

Why even decriminalise it?

The netherlands are a bad example to compare anything to.
Legalised distitution! [/quote]
I didn't say recreation use was GOOD, just not as harmful as we're led to believe.

It would keep many people who use it (and it only) out of jail; they don't belong there. It would keep my tax dollars from being spent on incarcerating them. It would be one less way for drug dealers to make money (if you think people would still buy from an illegal source when there is a legal, cheaper source you're wrong), and it would seperate the marijuana users from the hard drug market. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head without referencing any material.

Yes, the Netherlands has legal prostitution; so does the US (Nevada). I'm not pointing to that law, though. Just because a country got one thing wrong doesn't mean that all of their laws are wrong. We allow the murder of innocent babies, does that mean all of our laws are wrong?

Peace,

Tim

BTW, industrial hemp is legal. They use male marijuana plants (which produce less THC in all strains), and they've bred strains that produce no THC. You can find a variety of hemp products at stores like Claire's; I believe they make bracelets and such out of it.

[Oik]

You can own hemp, but you cannot grow it in the U.S.

The marijuana argument is a moot one. It is illegal and will stay illegal and I'm glad. If the effects it has aren't proven thru all the literature, there will never be a good enough answer for those who endorse it (I'm not saying this is you!)

There are so many testimonies of the things pot have done to destroy society. I suppose you could argue that its just the individual, but I (and a lot of other Americans) just don't see it that way.

The people against it have pleaded thier points and educated.

The people for it have pleaded thier points and educated.

The bottom line, it's a sin. Catholics should know this.

Edited December 15, 2004 by Oik

[cooltuba]

[quote name='Oik' date='Dec 15 2004, 02:33 AM'] You can own hemp, but you cannot grow it in the U.S.

The marijuana argument is a moot one. It is illegal and will stay illegal and I'm glad. If the effects it has aren't proven thru all the literature, there will never be a good enough answer for those who endorse it (I'm not saying this is you!)

There are so many testimonies of the things pot have done to destroy society. I suppose you could argue that its just the individual, but I (and a lot of other Americans) just don't see it that way.

The people against it have pleaded thier points and educated.

The people for it have pleaded thier points and educated.

The bottom line, it's a sin. Catholics should know this. [/quote]
I respect your opinion. I disagree, but I respect your opinion.

Peace,

Tim

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Oik' date='Dec 15 2004, 01:48 AM'] Since marijuana affects the body differently, its incorrect to judge it by the same standards as other drugs.

[/quote]
How, exactly, is it different?

[quote]Marijuana causes (can stimulate the growth of) cancer. [/quote]

You mean it contains carcinogens when smoked, correct? Just as does tobacco?

[quote]Personally, I don't want to have to deal with Second hand smoke and the contact high of pot.[/quote]

Since it can be ingested (and doing so is less harmful than smoking) you wouldn't necessarily have to deal with such things.

[quote]There are so many testimonies of the things pot have done to destroy society.[/quote]

The questions that generally arise are these:

1) Is it purely anecdotal evidence with no scientific basis?
2) Is the damage actually done by marijuana use or by the culture that has grown around it because of its illegality?

[quote]The bottom line, it's a sin. Catholics should know this. [/quote]

I thought this was under debate. If alcohol and tobacco aren't sinful, why is marijuana?

[cooltuba]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Dec 15 2004, 11:05 AM'] How, exactly, is it different?
You mean it contains carcinogens when smoked, correct? Just as does tobacco?
Since it can be ingested (and doing so is less harmful than smoking) you wouldn't necessarily have to deal with such things.
The questions that generally arise are these:
1) Is it purely anecdotal evidence with no scientific basis?
2) Is the damage actually done by marijuana use or by the culture that has grown around it because of its illegality?
I thought this was under debate. If alcohol and tobacco aren't sinful, why is marijuana? [/quote]
That person (Oik) isn't going to answer your questions. I asked the same questions (or similar), and I got a "Marijuana is bad...just because I say so" response. Oik isn't interested in debating the issue, so just agree to disagree and move on.

[Oik]

The realit is that the advocates of pot don't like the answers they are given, it's not that there is a lack of proof.

The Church has spoken on marijuana and drugs, if you want the facts, there are a lot of resources available.

Its not a matter of agree to disagree. Its a matter that the Church teaches it is a sin to smoke Pot for recreational use.

The Church teaches a lot of things are sinful and they have to reasoning to back it up.

The real question is, are advocates of pot willing to be open to the Truth?

[cooltuba]

[quote name='Oik' date='Dec 15 2004, 12:31 PM'] The realit is that the advocates of pot don't like the answers they are given, it's not that there is a lack of proof.

The Church has spoken on marijuana and drugs, if you want the facts, there are a lot of resources available.

Its not a matter of agree to disagree. Its a matter that the Church teaches it is a sin to smoke Pot for recreational use.

The Church teaches a lot of things are sinful and they have to reasoning to back it up.

The real question is, are advocates of pot willing to be open to the Truth? [/quote]
The CCC teaches that illegal drugs are immoral and scandalous. Marijuana is never specifically addressed.

I am open to Truth. I searched extensively for Church teachings on marijuana specifically, and they're not out there.

Find me an OFFICIAL Church teaching that smoking marijuana in moderate amounts is sinful, and I'll agree. I've looked extensively, and I've not been able to find a teaching other than all illegal drugs are immoral and scandalous because of their illegality.

Thanks,

Tim