Phazzan Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 In the book of Job, God takes away his family, his land and everyone he owns and loves. The supposed good out of this is that is strengthens Job's faith. If you were in Job's position, would you allow God to take your family, your land and everything you own and love to strengthen your faith? I think, as human beings it is in our nature to put our children before ourselves, therefore any mother or father would willingly sacrifice his or her own life to save his or her own child, but here we are celebrating death and loss because someone's faith is strengthened. So faith in God is obviously superior to love for our own children, but would you let God do to you what He did to Job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 God sacraficed his only son... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 [quote]but would you let God do to you what He did to Job? [/quote] Let Him? You don't [i]LET [/i]God do anything, He's God He does what He wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 [quote name='Theoketos' date='Dec 6 2004, 12:29 AM'] God sacraficed his only son... [/quote] Yeah, I understand that. That was so we could all have eternal life, as we are all God's children too. Christ died so we all could live. But you didn't answer my question, would you sacrifice your entire family if it meant your faith would be stronger? And no "God sacrificed his only son..." is not an answer. [quote]Let Him? You don't LET God do anything, He's God He does what He wants.[/quote] Oh really, gee I didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 hey you said let God do that to you. Job wasn't given a choice and when He complained God answered him in not a particulairly friendly way. Would I volunteer no. If I was commanded to by God, yes, without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 6 2004, 01:11 AM'] Job wasn't given a choice and when He complained God answered him in not a particulairly friendly way. Would I volunteer no. If I was commanded to by God, yes, without hesitation. [/quote] The entire theological point of Job is to prove good can result from evil. Now Job had a choice, to resent God for taking away everything he loves, or to accept it, so as to strengthen his own faith. Now my question to you is, is your own faith worth the lives of your loved one's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I would disagree with your premise, I don't think that was the point of Job at all and certianly not the "entire point". I would do it willingly if God demanded it of me, I would submit my will to His Will, it would not matter to me what the goal of God was only that it was God' s will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Phazzan, if your question is "would your faith be stregthened if God took everything away from you?" I would say "probably not." knowing myself, I would be so devistated... I like to think I'd come around, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 6 2004, 03:11 AM'] hey you said let God do that to you. Job wasn't given a choice and when He complained God answered him in not a particulairly friendly way. Would I volunteer no. If I was commanded to by God, yes, without hesitation. [/quote] How would you know the order came from God? God does not command us to do evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazzan Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 6 2004, 07:30 AM'] Phazzan, if your question is "would your faith be stregthened if God took everything away from you?" I would say "probably not." knowing myself, I would be so devistated... I like to think I'd come around, though... [/quote] Then I am trying to understand how good results from evil. The good resulting from the pain Job suffered brought him closer to God, though God took away his wife, children and everything he owned to bring him to that point. I would think that if I was in Jobs position, I would not like to see my own children die for the sake of my own spiritual health. I don't understand how good results from this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Cmom-- God ordered Abraham to slay Isaac---- but to answer your question, I would have to be really really sure. Phazzan-- good doesn't come from evil, Evil cannot be a causal force of Good. Now are you saying that Job teaches that suffering can be redemptive well then I would agree. that is however a very differant thing. Cmom and Phazzan--- I think there is a basic misunderstanding of Good and Evil at work here, God can not do anything Evil, nor can He command you to do anything Evil. THis is not because God is bound by some Platonic Idea of Good, but because God [i]is[/i] Good, that means not that He can only do what is Good but because whatever He does Is Good by virtue of Him doing it. God is Good not because He embodies those things that are Good, what is Good is so because those qualities are Godlike.If God slew all the blonds on Earth tomorrow for no reason other than He wanted to then it would be Good by virtue of God having done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 But we know since God is good, then He wouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 6 2004, 11:20 AM'] But we know since God is good, then He wouldn't do it. [/quote] But we have to be careful. We rarely understand God. Don't your think Peter and James thought that Christ suffered incredible Evil to no avail until Jesus came back and explained that what looked like an evil was really GOOD in Victory? How do we know that God causing all the Blondes to die would be Evil? When God slew the Egyptian firts born before the Exodus, wouldn't you think that the Egyptians suffered from Evil? God was not committing Evil, He was causing consequence for their refusal to obey Him and let His people go. Because of Origina Sin, the world is disorded and Evil exists as a consequence. God blesses us with the Dignity to suffer consequences of ours and others actions, both Good and Evil. When Evil is a consequence of our actions, God always provides the opportunity for a greater Good if we choose Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 no arguement there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 In Ockham's order of moral actions fulfilling the will of God is the ultimate good. Therefore, Abraham slaying his innocent son at the word of God would be an intrinsically good action, not an evil one, because God is the author of morality and He is Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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