toledo_jesus Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 9 2004, 01:26 AM'] Why would it be worth it to accept a modified and incorrect version of the nicene creed using the filioque? Why would it be worth it to accept papal infalliblity and papal supremacy? [/quote] You might find that the ones who aren't in schism can explain it better than the ones who are. At any rate, you should at least look into it before deciding that schism is for you. You may have already, I don't know. But you should learn what you can before you are chrismated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:20 AM'] I reserved that criticism for someone else. For you I have shown how nonsensical your accusations directed towards me were. Really, think about it. How many times have you prayed for the re-unification of the Church? I do it specifically 7 times per week and more depending on my morning and evening prayer petitions. [/quote] I pray for it every day. You haven't been here long, but if you knew my conversion story, you wouldn't be so quick to make judgements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 (edited) [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:29 AM'] I pray for it every day. You haven't been here long, but if you knew my conversion story, you wouldn't be so quick to make judgements... [/quote] I didn't accuse you of anything other than leveling false accusations at me. And in doing so you proved yourself to be the one who was quick to judge. I'm glad you too seek unification of the Church. Hopefully, the Bishop of Rome will admit his mistakes in the past and the filioque will be dropped and we can all be a big happy family again. Edited December 9, 2004 by spathariossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 my priest is good. He puts a prayer for Christian Unity in the Mass booklet. I pray it after I receive Our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:31 AM'] my priest is good. He puts a prayer for Christian Unity in the Mass booklet. I pray it after I receive Our Lord. [/quote] I'm glad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 (edited) I do it regularly, someimes 3 or 4 times a day, but i doubt you would care for how I word my prayer. You are Correct The bishop of Rome, whose Primacy was acknoledged in Council Excommunicated your Patriarch for his impudence and rejection of that Council's Authoritative statement. ( your Patriarch also Excommunicated the Pope so don't act as if this was some uber agressive move by the Papacy)Still We took care of all those Theological Differances at the Council of Florence, and when the Orthodox representitives returned, the Patriarch would hear nothing of reunification. Finally one of the problems here is that there is no Orthodox Church, Thee is a Russian Orthodox Church and Greek Orthodox Church, and a Serbian Orthodox Church and so on. The National Nature of The Orthodox Churches is a great divider, not to mention their subjegation by the State, reunification is not possible so long as the National nature of Orthodoxy is so prominant. Edited December 9, 2004 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06073a.htm"]Filioque from Catholic Encyclopedia. [/url] This was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Perhaps I was wrong, but you seem to be rather gleeful in your calling yourself a schismatic-- as though you desire schism... like you like division and are proud of it. If that was not the impression you were trying to give, I appologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:28 AM'] Edit: People took THAT literally? Ick...I'd be surprised but I'm not. Cuz for a minute there I totally thought you wanted to murder Muslim babies. But the *sarcasm* whew, that made me realize you were just kidding. [/quote] I am sorry are you being sarcastic or not? you think arassing Catholics is fun...man you gotta try Jehovah's witnesses.....I mean they ask for it! They come right up to your door. I am like "welcome to my parlor". Evangelicals are fun too, I lived on the evangelical bible thumper floor of an on campus apartment......man that was fun. Truthfully I hope that this rift heals, I like the Orthodox Church I want the Catholic and the Orthodox to get together. If you looked through my posts you will notice I lived in Poland for five months.....so I was on the border of Catholicism and Orthodoxy.....and in many ways and places they influenced each other there. Check this out [url="http://www.zamek-lublin.pl/zamekeng/kaplica.htm"]http://www.zamek-lublin.pl/zamekeng/kaplica.htm[/url] you will like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:34 AM'] I do it regularly, someimes 3 or 4 times a day, but i doubt you would care for how I word my prayer. You are Correct The bishop of Rome, whose Primacy was acknoledged in Council Excommunicated your Patriarch for his impudence and rejection of that Council's Authoritative statement. ( your Patriarch also Excommunicated the Pope so don't act as if this was some uber agressive move by the Papacy)Still We took care of all those Theological Differances at the Council of Florence, and when the Orthodox representitives returned, the Patriarch would hear nothing of reunification. Finally one of the problems here is that there is no Orthodox Church, Thee is a Russian Orthodox Church and Greek Orthodox Church, and a Serbian Orthodox Church and so on. The National Nature of The Orthodox Churches is a great divider, not to mention their subjegation by the State, reunification is not possible so long as the National natre of Orthodoxy is so prominant. [/quote] This is a big misconception. The Orthodox church is not as divided as people think. Instead, the difference between a Russian Orthodox Church and a Greek Orthodox Church is like hearing a Spanish mass in Mexico or an English one in the US or a French one in France. I went to Liturgy last week at the Greek Orthodox Church for their special feast day of St. Barbara. We had priests from the Antiochan, Greek, Russian, Serbian, and I think one other I'm forgetting, rites all serving at the altar. The Orthodox church is one church with one set of beliefs. We may have regional bishops and patriarchs but that is as God intended. Edited December 9, 2004 by spathariossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:34 AM'] Finally one of the problems here is that there is no Orthodox Church, Thee is a Russian Orthodox Church and Greek Orthodox Church, and a Serbian Orthodox Church and so on. The National Nature of The Orthodox Churches is a great divider, not to mention their subjegation by the State, reunification is not possible so long as the National nature of Orthodoxy is so prominant. [/quote] Yes, I was going to say something on this, but you said it much better than I would have, Don John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:37 AM'] I am sorry are you being sarcastic or not? you think arassing Catholics is fun...man you gotta try Jehovah's witnesses.....I mean they ask for it! They come right up to your door. I am like "welcome to my parlor". Evangelicals are fun too, I lived on the evangelical bible thumper floor of an on campus apartment......man that was fun. Truthfully I hope that this rift heals, I like the Orthodox Church I want the Catholic and the Orthodox to get together. If you looked through my posts you will notice I lived in Poland for five months.....so I was on the border of Catholicism and Orthodoxy.....and in many ways and places they influenced each other there. Check this out [url="http://www.zamek-lublin.pl/zamekeng/kaplica.htm"]http://www.zamek-lublin.pl/zamekeng/kaplica.htm[/url] you will like it. [/quote] That's amazing! It's like...both churches in one. I too hope the schism ends soon. I like Catholics, and I might still be Catholic if I hadn't been living in California. The different diocese in America even make a huge difference in worship. And I'd love to tour the cathedrals of Europe. I love Gothic Cathedrals almost as much as Hagia Sophia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 It is nt a misconception, historicly it has be very important, and is tied up with your subjegation to hte state, If the head of Russia wantsthe Patriarch to give in Historicly he is likely too( even to the communist) but that didn't mean that the Patriarch in Constantinople gave in on the same issue, Your Rite is the same, unified, but your Churches are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 9 2004, 12:41 AM'] It is nt a misconception, historicly it has be very important, and is tied up with your subjegation to hte state, If the head of Russia wantsthe Patriarch to give in Historicly he is likely too( even to the communist) but that didn't mean that the Patriarch in Constantinople gave in on the same issue, Your Rite is the same, unified, but your Churches are not. [/quote] The disagreement amongst regional heads of the Church are what makes Orthodoxy what it is. If you're saying that reunification isn't possible because there is no way the bishops would all willingly submit to the pope at the same time then you're right - and that is why Orthodoxy is correct. There is no way for all of us to lapse into heresy at once. That way saints like Athanasius and Nicholas can pull us out of the fire. However, if the Bishop of Rome gave up his false claim to primacy and we took down the Vatican then re-unification would be entirely possible. In fact, the centralization of Catholicism is the reason it has gone astray. Orthodoxy couldn't change dogma or doctrine if it wanted to because we'd have to have everyone agree on it. Catholicism on the other hand changes depending on which way the breeze blows on issues of discipline anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well AS fun as this is I'll have to pick it up tomorrow, good night all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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