complaint

[theculturewarrior]

Catholics are often mean, smug, elitist, racist, sexist, and sometimes downright sadistic. I don't think Catholics are alone in this. People in general seem to be pretty sorry excuses for creation or evolution or whatever they may think got them to the top of the food chain.

The difference is, though, that Catholics claim to have the fullness of Truth. Catholics worship a God of Love. Everybody else has an excuse. We don't.

[rachael]

[theculturewarrior]

Probably not worth debating huh?

[Don John of Austria]

No NOONE has ana excuse as the Law of God is written on every man's heart.

No, the differance is Catholic [i]know[/i] they are imperfect and sincerly pray for Gods forgivness.



( however being mean, smug, or elitist is not neccessarly a sin. An it depends on what you are dinfining as sexism if that is a sin or meritorious. True sexism is of course sinful but what many people call sexism is simply recognition ofGods plan.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 4 2004, 10:59 AM'] however being mean, smug, or elitist is not neccessarly a sin. [/quote]
I'm not too sure about this.

[rachael]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Dec 4 2004, 10:58 AM']

Probably not worth debating huh? [/quote]

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]I'm not too sure about this.  [/quote]


thats okay because I am.


At times Jesus was mean, smug, and elitist, and Jesus never sinned.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 4 2004, 11:08 AM']

thats okay because I am.


At times Jesus was mean, smug, and elitist, and Jesus never sinned. [/quote]
Okay, I'll bite.

When?

[Don John of Austria]

well just one example would be when he called the Cannanite woman a dog, and that His power was only for the Jews and not for her kind. that was mean and elitist. There are other examples of his Eliteism and meaness but none so compeling as that I mean he called the woman a b*tch. It isn't translated into that word but he called her a dog, and she was a female, what is a feale dog but a b*tch. And , that was on the basis of her race, nothing she had personally done or said. there are other examples but that one is pretty obvious.

Jesus was smug pretty much all the time, he was even smug to Pilate on the day of his death.

Edited December 4, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 4 2004, 11:22 AM'] well just one example would be when he called the Samaritain woman a dog, and that His power was only for the Jews and not for her kind. that was mean and elitist. There are other examples of his Eliteism and meaness but none so compeling as that I mean he called the woman a b*tch. It isn't translated into that word but he called her a dog, and she was a female, what is a feale dog but a b*tch. And , that was on the basis of her race, nothing she had personally done or said. there are other examples but that one is pretty obvious.

Jesus was smug pretty much all the time, he was even smug to Pilate on the day of his death. [/quote]
Is that really how it is?

Should we call non-Catholics dogs then? Is racism okay? Should we be racists in Imitation of Jesus? I don't think that's how the story ends.

[rachael]

TCW, what's the deal with you today?

[Don John of Austria]

No the story ends when she accepts her station beneath him , After he says....

"It is not right to take the food of the children 11 and throw it to the dogs."


She says""Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters."

[I'm not thrilled with that translationbut it is whats conveniant to hand.]



He is impressed by her faith and cast the demon out of her daughter. But he makes no appology nor does he say that he was wrong about her kind only
" "O woman, great is your faith! 12 Let it be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed from that hour. "


What we should do, one of the many lessons to be learned from Jesus -- in all things say it like it is even if that makes you mean, smug or elitist, sometimes you have cause to be all those things just be Truthful and Just about it.


After all Jesus was just to her, He healed her daughter in reward for her Faith.

Edited December 4, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[Guest JeffCR07]

Don John, while I most certainly agree with the virtue of recognizing one's station in life, I think that there is an aspect of that passage that you left out:

We must take the whole of the Scriptures in context, and consider their relation to Christ's redemptive act: In this light, we see that in the passage above, Christ recognized the womans inherent position of subordination - that is, that it would not be fitting for a gentile to receive the fruits of His salvific work before the Jews. However, we see also that this woman received more Grace from Christ than did many of the Jews, most notably those who called for his crucifixion.

With this in mind, we must acknowledge a major factor that has not yet been addressed: While there may very well be a Divine Priority, each and every one of us is forever in danger of losing our position and falling into mortal sin. In light of this fact, "elitism" is [i]never[/i] acceptable for us because it falls into the sin of presumption (we are presuming that we will not lose our place in the "priority" of heaven).

Christ, who did not stand in need of salvation, for He [i]is[/i] Salvation, can readily acknowledge this "priority" or "position" that we are discussing, for their is no presumption (in moral evil terms) within Him.

That having been said, I would note that even if it were possible to be "elitist" without falling into the sin of presumption, it is [i]stil[/i] unwise and unfitting to a Christian, for it is always, if nothing else, an occassion for sin.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Don John of Austria]

Well first it is quite easy to be an elitist without persumption of one's place in heaven. Elitism has nothing to do with ones place in heaven but with ones place in society. The presumption of equality is not Catholic in fact certian forms of this persumption of equality have been specificly condemned by the Church.


And I assure you Jeff I always take everything in Context, that is why I often quote much much more than I am actually using, because I want it to be seen in context. I actually studied this particular passage with an orthodox Catholic theologian at a Catholic University I am not taking it out of Context.

Edited December 4, 2004 by Don John of Austria