"Christmas" not in the bible

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Gal. 5:22' date='23,Dec 4 2004, 04:30 PM'] Maybe fundamentalists, but not evangelicals. We love Christmas and Easter. [/quote]
Actually Funde's and Evan's are all a mix of both lines of thought.

They are not one faith... they almost have as many faiths as they have churches.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited December 6, 2004 by ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 5 2004, 11:08 PM'] Such people forget the (important) distinction between sola and solo scriptura.

There is nothing anti-Biblical about picking a day to celebrate Christ's birth. It just so happens that the Early Church chose to supplant a pagan holiday (Sol Invictus, or the Invincible Sun) with the Feast of Christ's Birth - so, rather than celebrating the feast of the Invincible Sun, we celebrate the feast of the Invincible Son.

Cool, eh? [/quote]
You can thank the Catholic Church.

One Church... not 2 or more.

Here is a little history for ya:
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm[/url]


Notice all the names... they all believed in:
Confession to a Priest.
Sacrifice of the Mass.
The Real Pressence in the Eucharist.
The Catholic Church.
Papal Authority.
etc...

If you do not believe those things, how can you say you are part of the True Church?

You reject teachings of the Early Church, since the Church will not be overcome and is guided in all Truth by the Holy Spirit, how can you reject what was taught by the Early Church as Truth?

All Saints are Catholic... Roman Catholic... Papist... whatever you want to call them... it's all the same... The same Church lead by the Vicar of Christ; Successor of Peter; Pope John Paul II.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Archangel' date='Dec 4 2004, 12:49 AM'] Many non-Catholic Christians argue that several Catholic terms are not found in the bible ("Purgatory", "Immaculate Conception", "Holy Trinity", etc.). Therefore, these "inventions" should not be believed in, they say.

So I would like to know, do they avoid using the term "Christmas" as well? It's not found in the bible. It is actually formed from the words "Christ" + "Mass". [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=christmas"]Dictionary.com[/url]

If they do use the word "Christmas", why do they use it if it is not found in Scripture? [/quote]
Generally I've found that protestants don't believe in the concepts of purgatory or immaculate conception more than they argue against the use of the words.

However, they can point to the passages about Jesus birth and come to the conclusion that a celebration is warranted. That they call it christmas means nothing more than can be found in history. The catholic church ruled most of Europe for many hundreds of years. People got used to using certain terms -- instead of trying to change the name of a holiday that basically remained the same, they simply adopted the term that was already used.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 6 2004, 12:50 AM'] I recall reading a bit of St. Athanasius, but not the latter - anything in particular I should look out for? [/quote]
I greatly recommend the [i]Mystagogia[/i] by St. Maximus. It is a treatise on the Church, the Liturgy, and the soul of man and has a lot of really good stuff in it. The only reason I mention it is because, while it is not the focus of the text by a long shot, he discusses the relationship between faith and works.

[ICTHUS]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Dec 6 2004, 02:09 PM'] I greatly recommend the [i]Mystagogia[/i] by St. Maximus. It is a treatise on the Church, the Liturgy, and the soul of man and has a lot of really good stuff in it. The only reason I mention it is because, while it is not the focus of the text by a long shot, he discusses the relationship between faith and works. [/quote]
Cool - I shall have to take a look at it, then. Where can I find it online?

Edited December 6, 2004 by ICTHUS

[duarc]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Dec 5 2004, 01:45 AM'] I said most, knowing that Mormons and JW's don't believe in the Trinity. Yes, theologically they're not Christian though, even though they proclaim Christ as savior. [/quote]
Err.... I must argue with you there.


No, they don't believe in the trinity but they are Christians in the same sense that Non-Denominational Christians are. From what I remember, they honor God, acknowladge the Holy Spirit and, yes, Proclaim that Jesus Christ is their Savior. They also aren't cultists. Just slightly different... err, okay a lot different.

I'm not an expert. -_-()

[Archangel]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Dec 6 2004, 09:55 AM']People got used to using certain terms -- instead of trying to change the name of a holiday that basically remained the same, they simply adopted the term that was already used.[/quote]
Since the people are using an extra-biblical term, aren't they using tradition to perpetuate it's use?

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 6 2004, 02:54 PM'] Cool - I shall have to take a look at it, then. Where can I find it online? [/quote]
I'm not quite sure, I'll try to find a place online that has the text and I'll get back to you

- Jeff

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='duarc' date='Dec 6 2004, 06:37 PM']They also aren't cultists. Just slightly different...  err, okay a lot different.[/quote]
actually they *are* cultists. *WE* are also cultists. (Assuming of course that you belong to a religion.) Cult simply means a systematic religious way of life. The negative connotations are fairly new.

don't worry too much when someone uses negative connotations of cult against someone. I can almost guarantee that a person accusing someone of being in a cult has no idea what 'cult' means.

Peace,
Joe

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='ICTHUS' date='Dec 6 2004, 02:54 PM'] Cool - I shall have to take a look at it, then. Where can I find it online? [/quote]
That's a tough find for me... I looked around and found this [urlhttp://www.rassegna.unibo.it/autcrist.html[/url]
scroll down to Maximus Confessor and click on the "Mystagogia" link. I couldn't get the link to work, but maybe it'll work for you. But that's all I can seem to find right now.

[yiannii]

[quote name='duarc' date='Dec 7 2004, 10:37 AM'] Err.... I must argue with you there.


No, they don't believe in the trinity but they are Christians in the same sense that Non-Denominational Christians are. From what I remember, they honor God, acknowladge the Holy Spirit and, yes, Proclaim that Jesus Christ is their Savior. They also aren't cultists. Just slightly different... err, okay a lot different.

I'm not an expert. -_-() [/quote]
I thought that a Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is true God and true man. Mormons and JW's do not believe this therefore under this definition they are not classified Christian.

[yiannii]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Dec 7 2004, 05:55 AM'] Generally I've found that protestants don't believe in the concepts of purgatory or immaculate conception more than they argue against the use of the words.

However, they can point to the passages about Jesus birth and come to the conclusion that a celebration is warranted. That they call it christmas means nothing more than can be found in history. The catholic church ruled most of Europe for many hundreds of years. People got used to using certain terms -- instead of trying to change the name of a holiday that basically remained the same, they simply adopted the term that was already used. [/quote]
On what authority did "they" warrant this decision? Is this same authority still practiced by Protestants today?

[artemisjade]

[quote name='yiannii' date='Dec 7 2004, 04:39 AM'] On what authority did "they" warrant this decision? Is this same authority still practiced by Protestants today? [/quote]
Well, I grew up Protestant and we felt that the birth of Jesus should be celebrated. How could you not celebrate the birth of Jesus? We give gifts to each other because the wise men gave gifts to Jesus. We also gather at church for praise, worship, and usually communion.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='duarc' date='Dec 6 2004, 06:37 PM']Err.... I must argue with you there.


No, they don't believe in the trinity but they are Christians in the same sense that Non-Denominational Christians are. From what I remember, they honor God, acknowladge the Holy Spirit and, yes, Proclaim that Jesus Christ is their Savior. They also aren't cultists. Just slightly different...  err, okay a lot different.

I'm not an expert. -_-()[/quote]

Take it from someone who debates with them, they do not accept the divinity of Christ. They see him as the SON of God yes, but they do not accept that he is God. They also only accept the Holy Spirit as some unseen 'force', again not a person but a 'wind' or 'breath' of God and nothing else. They also (moving back to Christ) see Christ as 3 different persons. The archangel Michael before his birth, Jesus Christ the physical earthly man, then some spririt person after death.

Uh, pretty non-Christian thinking to me.

[quote]If they do use the word "Christmas", why do they use it if it is not found in Scripture?[/quote]
Actually, they are argueing to have it called 'Holiday Tree' thus removing Christ from Christmas a little at a time.

[yiannii]

[quote name='artemisjade' date='Dec 8 2004, 04:43 AM'] Well, I grew up Protestant and we felt that the birth of Jesus should be celebrated. How could you not celebrate the birth of Jesus? We give gifts to each other because the wise men gave gifts to Jesus. We also gather at church for praise, worship, and usually communion. [/quote]
Sounds like a church making laws or tradition to me.... That is what the Catholic Church does but instead of using rational like this they base their decisions on Scripture, Tradition passed down from the original twelve, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit giving such doctrines authority to be carried out. There is no doubt that the celebration of Christmas is un-Biblical, in the sense that it is not spelled out like the Protestants would probably like. Many Protestants call into question ancient Catholic traditions such as the intercession of the Saints and the belief of Purgatory because there is no exact spelling out of the practice in the Bible. Well the same goes for Christmas.

Why do Christians (the majority) keep Sunday as their holy day? In fact why do Catholics have Sunday as the holy day? LOL….

artemisjade are you a convert?