Women Doctors

[qfnol31]

This is in response to something else:

[quote]My point was not that they did not write about theology at all (or, even less, that they did not understand theology). My point is that they are doctors because of their holiness, not their theology, otherwise, that means a woman has become a teacher in the Church, which has been denied as possible by Scripture, Tradition, and Catholicism in general. The fact that no woman was even made a Doctor until after Vatican II is not surprising.

By the way, I have not read anything from any of those three, but I have read some of Saint Catherine of Genoa's Treatise on Purgatory, so I do not claim that women cannot write on theological matters at all; I simply was saying that women are not Teachers in the Church. A Doctor is a Teacher; ergo, the three women Doctors are Doctors of holiness not theology. Otherwise, a woman has been made a Teacher in the Church.[/quote]

[quote name='Pope']Indeed, when the Magisterium proclaims someone a doctor of the Church, it intends to point out to all the faithful, particularly to those who[b] perform in the Church the fundamental service of preaching or who undertake the delicate task of theological teaching and research[/b], that the doctrine professed and proclaimed by a certain person can be a reference point, not only because it conforms to revealed truth, [b]but also because it sheds new light on the mysteries of the faith, a deeper understanding of Christ's mystery.[/b][/quote]

You going to argue with the Pope? These women shed light on the subject of our faith. You must read St. Teresa before you can say otherwise. Then you'll know what I'm talking about. There is a profound theological component in her [i]Interior Castle[/i] that I've never seen any where else. Didn't she also help teach St. John of the Cross?

Edited December 1, 2004 by qfnol31

[Azriel]

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 1 2004, 03:54 PM'] You going to argue with the Pope? [/quote]
Yes, I rather think such an argument will ensue.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 1 2004, 05:04 PM'] Yes, I rather think such an argument will ensue. [/quote]
You took the words right outta my mouth.

[CatholicCrusader]

It's an interesting scenario. Either argue with a post-Vatican II Pope or with Scripture, Tradition, Saint Paul, and many other Saints... I take Scripture, Tradition, and Saints over a Pope who is not canonized.

In any event, correct me if I am wrong, but declaring a Saint to be a Doctor does not entail any infallible proclamation. If this is the case, then there is no infallible decree from the Church saying that a woman is a Teacher (cf., I Timothy ii.12). I must be off now, but I think the issue is somewhat moot insofar as it is not an infallible teacher. It would be, at worst, a Scandal to say that women are Teachers. God bless.

Edit: Sorry, this is Adam (amarkich), but I do not have time to transfer it to my name. Just for the record, it is I, not Matthew.

Edited December 1, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[Brother Adam]

There you go. lol.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Dec 1 2004, 04:00 PM'] It's an interesting scenario. Either argue with a post-Vatican II Pope or with Scripture, Tradition, Saint Paul, and many other Saints... I take Scripture, Tradition, and Saints over a Pope who is not canonized.

In any event, correct me if I am wrong, but declaring a Saint to be a Doctor does not entail any infallible proclamation. If this is the case, then there is no infallible decree from the Church saying that a woman is a Teacher (cf., I Timothy ii.12). I must be off now, but I think the issue is somewhat moot insofar as it is not an infallible teacher. It would be, at worst, a Scandal to say that women are Teachers. God bless.

Edit: Sorry, this is Adam (amarkich), but I do not have time to transfer it to my name. Just for the record, it is I, not Matthew. [/quote]
Where can you find [i]quotes[/i] to the contrary?

[cmotherofpirl]

Catholic Encyclopedia:
The requisite conditions are enumerated as three: eminens doctrina, insignis vitae sanctitas, Ecclesiae declaratio (i.e. eminent learning, a high degree of sanctity, and proclamation by the Church). Benedict XIV explains the third as a declaration by the supreme pontiff or by a general council. But though general councils have acclaimed the writings of certain Doctors, no council has actually conferred the title of Doctor of the Church. In practice the procedure consists in extending to the universal church the use of the Office and Mass of a saint in which the title of doctor is applied to him. The decree is issued by the Congregation of Sacred Rites and approved by the pope, after a careful examination, if necessary, of the saint's writings. It is not in any way an ex cathedra decision, nor does it even amount to a declaration that no error is to be found in the teaching of the Doctor. It is, indeed, well known that the very greatest of them are not wholly immune from error.

Since the Church issues a decree that the following people are doctors of the church and meet the requirements just listed, it is part of the Magisterium of the Church. If you argue that the Magisterium is in error, be my guest.




ST. ALBERT THE GREAT (1200-80?). Dominican. Patron of natural scientists; called doctor universalis, doctor expertus.

ST. ALPHONSUS LIGUORI (1696-1787). Patron of confessors and moralists. Founder of the Redemptorists.

ST. AMBROSE (340-97). One of the four traditional Doctors of the Latin Church. Opponent of Arianism in the West. Bishop of Milan.

ST. ANSELM (1033-1109). Archbishop of Canterbury. Father of Scholasticism.

ST. ANTHONY OF PADUA (1195-1231). Franciscan Friar Evangelical Doctor.

ST. ATHANASIUS (297-373). Bishop of Alexandria. Dominant opponent of Arianism. Father of Orthodoxy.

ST. AUGUSTINE (354-430). Bishop of Hippo. One of the four traditional Doctors of the Latin Church. Doctor of Grace.

ST. BASIL THE GREAT (329-79). One of the Three Cappadocian Fathers. Father of monasticism in the East.

ST. BEDE THE VENERABLE (673-735). Benedictine priest Father of English history.

ST. BERNARD OF CLAIRVAUX (1090-1153). Cistercian. Called Mellifluous Doctor because of his eloquence.

ST. BONAVENTURE (1217-74). Franciscan theologian. Seraphic Doctor.

ST. CATHERINE OF SIENA (1347-80). Mystic. Second. woman Doctor.

ST. CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA (376-444). Patriarch. Opponent of Nestorianism. Made key contributions to Christololgy.

ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM (315-87). Bishop and opponent of Arianism in the East.

ST. EPHRAEM THE SYRIAN (306-73). Biblical exegete and ecclesiastical writer. Called Harp of the Holy Spirit.

ST. FRANCIS DE SALES (1567-1622). Bishop, leader in Counter-Reformation. Patron of Catholic writers and the Catholic press.

ST. GREGORY I THE GREAT (540-604). Pope. Fourth and last of the traditional Doctors of the Latin Church. Defended papal supremacy and worked for clerical and monastic reform.

ST. GREGORY OF NAZIANZUS (330-90). Called the Christian Demosthenes because of his eloquence and, in the Eastern Church, The Theologian. One of the Three Cappadocian Fathers.

ST. HILARY OF POITIERS (315-68). Bishop. Called The Athanasius of the West.

ST. ISIDORE OF SEVILLE (S60-636). Archbishop, theologian, historian. Regarded as the most learned man of his time.

ST. JEROME (343-420). One of the four traditional Doctors of the Latin Church. Father of biblical science.

ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM (347-407). Bishop of Constantinople. Patron of preachers and called Golden- Mouthed because of his eloquence.

ST. JOHN DAMASCENE (675-749). Greek theologian. Called Golden Speaker because of his eloquence.

ST. JOHN OF THE CROSS (1542-91). Joint founder of the Discalced Carmelites. Doctor of Mystical Theology.

ST. LAWRENCE OF BRINDISI (1559-1619). Vigorous preacher of strong influence in the post-Reformation period.

ST. LEO I THE GREAT (400-61). Pope. Wrote against Nestorian and Monophysite heresies and errors of Manichaeism and Pelagianism.

ST. PETER CANISIUS (1521-97). Jesuit theologian. Leader in the Counter-Reformation.

ST. PETER CHRYSOLOGUS (400-50). Bishop of Ravenna. Called Golden-Worded.

ST. PETER DAMIAN (1007-72). Benedictine. Ecclesiastical and clerical reformer.

ST. ROBERT BELLARMINE (1542-1621). Jesuit. Defended doctrine under attack during and after the Reformation. Wrote two catechisms.

ST. TERESA OF AVILA (1515-82). Spanish Carmelite nun and mystic. First woman Doctor.

ST. THERESE OF LISIEUX (1873-1897). French Carmelite nun. Known as The Little Flower, her autobiographical "Story of a Soul" has become a spiritual classic, inspiring millions to follow her "Little Way" of holiness. Already Patroness of the Missions, she was proclaimed the third woman Doctor of the Church by Pope John Paul II on October 19th, 1997.

ST. THOMAS AQUINAS (1225-74). Dominican philosopher and theologian. Called Angelic Doctor. Patron of Catholic schools and education.

Edited December 1, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[StColette]

St. Teresa's "The Way of Perfection" is a completely awesome read. I highly recommend it. Her understanding on the Our Father is wonderful. I love the women doctors of the Church. They give me hope that what I'm about to study and hope to teach one day will help other women and girls of the faith to become more interested in the Church and what She teaches.

[God Conquers]

Isn't St. Edith Stein also a doctor of the Church? I may be mistaken.

[God Conquers]

Also... I don't think I'm really understanding what the big deal would be if a woman is a doctor.

Where exactly is this proscribed against?

[CatholicforChrist]

Well, the problem is if Doctor = Teacher, then it would be bad to have a woman Doctor because Saint Paul says that women cannot be teachers. amarkich references this:

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence." I Timothy 2:12.

This would be a problem because it contradicts the Bible, as he said. As the author of this thread points out (apparently from JPII?), the Pope has said:
"Indeed, when the Magisterium proclaims someone a doctor of the Church, it intends to point out to all the faithful, particularly to those who perform in the Church the fundamental service of preaching or who undertake the delicate task of theological teaching and research, that the doctrine professed and proclaimed by a certain person can be a reference point, not only because it conforms to revealed truth, but also because it sheds new light on the mysteries of the faith, a deeper understanding of Christ's mystery."

This, however, is his personal opinion. The three requisites are stated in a previous post: eminens doctrina, insignis vitae sanctitas, Ecclesiae declaratio. This does not necessarily mean that every Doctor is a Teacher necessarily, so the women Doctors are not necessarily teachers. Also, it is important to note that on the list of Doctors, for all three women, it lists their [i]spiritual [/i]importance (not theological). It cites that they were mystics, not theologians. This clears up any problems concerning women Teachers in the Church. Thanks for the information, CMom.

[qfnol31]

Well, I wonder if you could pose that there are two different types of teachers. Neither Teresa nor Thérèse wanted to teach anything. They were under orders to write. In this case they weren't exactly teachers in the way that you may think.

[God Conquers]

It seems to me that Paul's proscription must be taken wrongly or out of context....

Should women not be allowed to teach in seminaries or universities?

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Dec 1 2004, 07:13 PM'] Isn't St. Edith Stein also a doctor of the Church? I may be mistaken. [/quote]
No (and thank God).