Kilroy the Ninja Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 ok, I'm not terribly familiar with Scott Hahn's writings, but I too would be interested in exactly why people think he's purporting that the Holy Spirit is feminine. Can anybody point me in the right direction? I did look at the article, but it doesn't quote Hahn at all, nor does it cite his works for this theory. Saying the Holy Spirit is feminine is mostly likely NOT ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Dec 1 2004, 04:05 PM'] ok, I'm not terribly familiar with Scott Hahn's writings, but I too would be interested in exactly why people think he's purporting that the Holy Spirit is feminine. Can anybody point me in the right direction? I did look at the article, but it doesn't quote Hahn at all, nor does it cite his works for this theory. Saying the Holy Spirit is feminine is mostly likely NOT ok... [/quote] I would guess that he wasn't assigning the Holy Spirit a gender, which would be heresy, but that he is relating the mission of the Holy Spirit particularly to the mission of women in the Church. But then, I'm not sure what is being referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 its from "First Comes love" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Dec 1 2004, 04:14 PM'] its from "First Comes love" [/quote] I would guess then that it has something to do with Theology of the Body. If that is the case, then it is perfectly acceptable because it is not meant in a literal sense, but as a parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Wow, is Scott Hahn really your uncle? I do not mean to bash him (if you are considering my comments bashing). I was just making the points that the author made [i]and substantiated with examples[/i]. I have only heard Hahn speak once, but I enjoyed it. Anyway, I think almost all of what he says is good Catholic teaching. The problem is in the few theories that he has formed based on personal interpretation of the Bible without support of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church. Apparently he is quite an insightful man if he was able to understand so many teachings of the Church by personally reading and understanding the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Anyone can disagree with Scott Hahn if they like. It's not a Dogma or doctrine of the Church that the Holy Spirit is the femine part of God. It's also probably not quite contrary to the Church, if understood correctly. Make sure you understand what he's saying before you condemn what he's said. There are very typical attributes found in females. These attributes may be most clearly expressed in the Holy Spirit. This makes sense because women are in the image and likeness of God too, so they have to be actualized in God (according to Señor Aquinas), so there would have to be a place where "feminine attributes" are found most. All Scott Hahn has said is that this person is the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 [quote name='amarkich' date='Dec 1 2004, 02:19 PM'] Wow, is Scott Hahn really your uncle? I do not mean to bash him (if you are considering my comments bashing). I was just making the points that the author made [i]and substantiated with examples[/i]. I have only heard Hahn speak once, but I enjoyed it. Anyway, I think almost all of what he says is good Catholic teaching. The problem is in the few theories that he has formed based on personal interpretation of the Bible without support of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church. Apparently he is quite an insightful man if he was able to understand so many teachings of the Church by personally reading and understanding the Bible. [/quote] Actually, my guess is that in this case he used St. Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 (edited) He finds no Latin Father in support of this theory and only four minute Eastern Fathers: Methodius, Ephrem, Aphrahat and Narsai. He may base some things on Saint Thomas Aquinas, but that does not mean that Aquinas agrees with the proposition that the Holy Ghost has feminine qualities. Edit: By the way, the source for the support from the Fathers is from Robert Sungenis, Catholic Apologetics International. He cites those four Fathers as the only supporters of Hahn's theory. Edited December 1, 2004 by amarkich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Thanks for the link. Not having seen a direct quote, all I can say is the critics might be reading into the statement more than Dr. Hahn intended. Here's my laymen's view. There are masculine attributes associated with God. For example: [b]First Person (Father): [/b]The world was not "borne" of God, like a child from a mother. It was created, like the role of a father. Our Lord called God "Father." [b]Second Person (Son):[/b] Jesus revealed Himself as a man in the Incarnation. [b]Third Person (Holy Spirit): [/b] Our Lord was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. This is a "masculine" role for the Holy Spirit. In the Holy Bible, one finds feminine aspects to God, though not assigned to a particular Person of the Trinity. Seeing masculine and feminine attributes in God is pretty kosher in my book. The danger is when we try to project a gender onto God. God is spirit: He is neither male or female. But, it makes sense to call God by the pronoun "He," for the reasons listed above. If I had to guess, when the Holy Bible uses feminine imagery, and two out of the three Persons of the Trinity are clearly identified with masculine attributes, it would stand to reason that the third Person of the Trinity might be used by a theologian to assign the feminine characteristics. Such logic seems a bit shaky, though, and probably could lead to a theology with too much separation between the Persons. I'm sure some others will have a better defense of this position--I'm just a layman. Here's some more on the topic: [url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Faith/Jul-Aug99/God2.html"]http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Fa...Aug99/God2.html[/url] I suspect that a theologian has to have a balance in which God isn't being assigned a sex (He is spirit, and sex is a carnal trait), and the rejection of the feminist goddess theology. My experience is that orthodox Catholic theology has always looked to maintaining this balance. I suspect that Dr. Hahn's actual quote will reveal someone who is interested in maintaining this balance, despite the accusations of his detractors. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 (edited) [quote]He finds no Latin Father in support of this theory and only four minute Eastern Fathers: Methodius, Ephrem, Aphrahat and Narsai. He may base some things on Saint Thomas Aquinas, but that does not mean that Aquinas agrees with the proposition that the Holy Ghost has feminine attributes.[/quote] Well, according to Aquinas, if the feminine attributes are present to women by nature, they have to be somewhere in God. ed. to show what i'm arguing against. Edited December 1, 2004 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 [quote]the Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Church, which is the bride of Christ. And since the spirit is the form of the body and the body is feminine, that would make the Holy Spirit feminine[/quote] way to JUMP to conclusions, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 the Holy Spirit is not feminine. Dr. Scott Hahn is correct. He said on the television show on EWTN, First Comes Love, that the Holy Spirit is not female, but that in the inner life of the trinity His role is parallel to the role of the mother/wife in a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Dec 1 2004, 03:57 PM'] didn't you click on the link I posted? that link is from a VERY catholic site...so you know that they're not just hating on ole scottie boy... [/quote] I read most of the link. I haven't seen any significant direct quotes of Dr. Hahn. Their complaint is that Dr. Hahn is arguing "the Holy Spirit being the "feminine dimension of God." I just don't see this term "feminine dimension of God" as equal to the heresy of assigning a female gender to God. With no knowledge of the details, I can only conclude what I wrote above. He isn't trying to make the Holy Spirit into a female. He's simply reviewing historical documents. The [i]ad hominem [/i](i.e. "the burden of proof is certainly on Hahn, but he has utterly failed to reach that benchmark.") rings hollow, because it seems to infer that Dr. Hahn is trying to prove a female goddess. He isn't. I really think this isn't much more than a misunderstanding among theologians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 New Oxford Review is heading off the deep end of the dock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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