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Marijuana


Lil Red

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[quote name='Carrie' date='Dec 7 2004, 01:25 PM'] Her point is not to prove the pros of marijuana usage. From what I've read, she has not shown a stand either for or against marijuana usage. Please realize we are not trying to prove that marijuana usage is not harmful. [/quote]
Then clue me in what either of you are claiming.

I say pot is harmful, you denigrate my source as being biased.

I say there is evidence that pot excacerbates the occurence of psychosis, especially schizophrenia, and you claim that your professor says otherwise.

You claim that pot is no more harmful than tobacco & alcohol and provide no evidence while DJ and I have provided evidence that pot is way more harmful than either.

I state why add another harmful act as legitimate in society (pot use) and you say that tobacco wasn't used in europe thousands of years ago.

You are trying to communicate what, exactly?


[quote]Geez, who's acting like a child? [/quote] I think I'm a really funny and nice guy with a low tolerance for obstinate ignorance or feigned superiorty. Heck. I'm just a high-school educated working dink. I know my educational limitations and have the utmost respect for people more educated than I. That is why I am very well read to learn the opinion and logic of real experts. I do know (like the Scarecrow) that one doesn't have to have a paper degree to use the common sense and reason God gives most of us. I say what I want, how I want, though I don't purposely set out to be rude. Nevertheless, there is no need for you to respect me, respect the mental capacity and limitations God gave yourself and take a bit of concern that you might inadvertently mislead someone else.

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[quote name='jasJis' date='Dec 7 2004, 01:19 PM'] Are you obtuse :no: or stoned :smokey: ? Put the bong down, sober up, and read the dang articles.
[/quote]
I'll assume that this was supposed to be a joke. It isn't funny, though, it's just puerile.

[quote]The current statistical evidence [u]is[/u] for CAUSATION, not just a relative statistical coincedence that schizo people tend to smoke pot.  Even the pro-medical use of mariuajuana sites acknowledge this and advise monitoring.[/quote]

I see a lot of this type of language:

"strongly associated"
"more likely"
"relationship"

oh, and my favorite:

"Where there is repeated and frequent use from a very early age we have real concerns that that is exacerbating the illness and bringing it on earlier," Dr O'Donnell said.

Funny, she certainly isn't saying "cause" and yet earlier in the article the author attributed that to her. That's how misunderstandings of this type occur.

Also, there's this: "One of the key conclusions of the research is that people who start smoking cannabis as adolescents are at the greatest risk of later developing mental health problems." Noone here is arguing that anyone other than adults should be allowed to smoke it.

[quote]Gee.  It's like arguing with children that just say 'nuh-uh'.  Have YOU provided any evidence, or sites, or links or quotes that justify or "prove" your claims?  (Heck.  You could at least go to the pro-medical pot sites and just cite their pros...)[/quote]

What, exactly, are my claims?

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*sigh* How can I mislead anyone into anything when I have yet to take a pro-marijuana or anti-marijuana stance? I'm not advocating either position.

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[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 7 2004, 01:25 PM']

Well first alcohol isn't harmful at all in fact in moderate quanities it is benificial for your health, so that isn't even an issue.

[/quote]
That would be wine, not 100 proof rum. Is 100 proof rum inherently sinful?

[quote]As for tabacco I quoted a study which shows that in animals moderate doses of Marijuana alters male sexual Chromosomes and thathese birth defects are passed on generationally, is there ANY evidence at all that smoking a camel is going to cause your grandson to have endocrine problems? I have heard of none, but many studies have shown that such a thing does happen with mammals. That is a pretty serious differance between pot and tabacco.[/quote]

Please, point me to this study. Also, tobacco is smoked which is linked to lung cancer -- if marijuana is ingested it isn't linked to lung cancer. Seems that tobacco is more harmful in this situation.

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[quote name='jasJis' date='Dec 7 2004, 02:16 PM'] Then clue me in what either of you are claiming.

[/quote]
As far as I can tell, that marijuana is not inherently more harmful than tobacco or alcohol and therefore is no more sinful (as long as it is legal).

[quote]I say pot is harmful, you denigrate my source as being biased.[/quote]

Um, no, I'm not arguing that it isn't harmful in some way.

[quote]You claim that pot is no more harmful than tobacco & alcohol and provide no evidence while DJ and I have provided evidence that pot is way more harmful than either.[/quote]

What evidence would you like?

[quote]Fetal alcohol syndrome results from pregnant women consuming alcohol and it is the leading cause if mental retardation in children.

There is a very strong correlation between alcohol consumption, violence, aggression, and date rape.

Wernicke Korsikoff Disorder results from excessive alcohol consumption and malnutrition. Its effects are caused by thiamine deficiency. Thiamine is a type of amino acid and amino acids make proteins.

There is also a strong correslation between alcohol consumption and liver cancer.

In CAT Scans 95% of alcoholics and 67% of heavy social drinkers show decreased cortical volume and increased ventricular size as compared to the brains of non-drinkers.[/quote]

[quote]Anandamide is a steroid that is naturally found in the body and has effects similar to THC. It is released in times of severe stress and acts to slow the perception of time in order to help the mind deal with an adverse situation.[/quote]

[quote]In a report published in December 1997, the World Health Organization (WHO) scrapped a finding that marijuana, even if consumed on the same scale as alcohol or tobacco, is probably safer than either, according to a February 21 report in the New Scientist, a British Magazine (David Concar, "High anxieties: What the WHO doesn't want you to know about cannabis," New Scientist, February 21, 1998, p. 4; Tim Radford, "UN report leaked," The Guardian (UK), February 19, 1998; "WHO denies buckling on drug-use safety," Washington Times, February 20, 1998, p. A15).

The suppressed passage said that the comparison of marijuana with alcohol and tobacco was made "not to promote one drug over another but rather to minimise double standards that have operated in appraising the health effects of cannabis."
[/quote]


[quote]I state why add another harmful act as legitimate in society (pot use) and you say that tobacco wasn't used in europe thousands of years ago.[/quote]

Actually I was responding to your ignorant statement that people everywhere have used tobacco for thousands of years.

[quote]take a bit of concern that you might inadvertently mislead someone else.[/quote]

I'd worry about that for yourself.

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[quote name='Carrie' date='Dec 7 2004, 02:46 PM'] *sigh*  How can I mislead anyone into anything when I have yet to take a pro-marijuana or anti-marijuana stance?  I'm not advocating either position. [/quote]
And I commend you very much so, for the stance you have chozen to take
is the correct stance..........God bless you

To those who condem, marijuana is sin in your eyes, fine, that is cool, nothening wrong with that.........With that said, Understand where I and others come from, judge not unless you desire to be judged...........I've posted this scripture and I will post it again.....read it, it proves exactly why Carrie has taken the correct approach on this issure

[color=blue]I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Paul: Romans 14: 2,3,13,14,17)[/color]

Honestly, how can you still sit there and say that someone who uses marijuana, in a moderate dosage, in a legal setting, is still sinning ????
There is no way you can still say that if you read that scripture
Paul says "NOTHING IS UNCLEAN OF ITSELF"
yes to you, it is a sin, becuz you see it as unclean
thats fine and dandy, nothen wrong with that at all
but you cross the line, when you say that its a sin for anyone else also......
Godbless

Edited by Guest
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[quote name='Carrie' date='Dec 7 2004, 02:14 PM']
toledo, as a psychology major, I would hope that you come to rely more on the studies and actual evidence rather than personal experience.  That will not serve you well in your career.

[/quote]
I'm not discounting the studies, I just don't think they have been able to determine anything one way or the other. Otherwise why would we be debating? Maybe in about 25-50 years we'll have some hard data on what marijuana really does to us in the long run, but right now the studies seem to say that they can't determine if there are any long-term effects. That doesn't help. My personal experience gives me a reason to believe that there are negative long term effects to personality development and motivation. In the absence of any concrete scientific position the only thing we can go on is what we have observed. Maybe this is a good thing for me to research, eh? ;) Would an experiment that involved giving adolescents at the cusp of puberty marijuana and tracking their lives for about ten years be ethical?

But anyway, yes it is a sin, firstly because it is meant to get you high and that is a no no, and secondly because it is against the law. So even if you dispute the first point there is no getting around the second.

And Delivery Boy, stop misinterpreting Scripture. I already addressed that you are taking that passage out of context. It is in regards to Jewish dietary laws, and if you [u]read the rest of it[/u] you will find it instructs those early Christians not to look down on Christians who kept the old laws. It's about being scrupulous. Find a different verse to excuse bad behavior.

Edited by toledo_jesus
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pot is not a big deal in my life
i wouldnt talk about it, unless brought up
I jus think some of you should be less harsh when judgeing someone
telling people to put the bongs away and asking them if there stoned
jus becuz they dont agree with you.....that isnt gonna change their mind
heck im'a nobody, i dropped outta highschool, i got my g.e.d. and i only make eight bucks an hour.........and you guys can blame that on pot lol wutevers clever.......i went through a pothead stage, yep.....if you wanna blame my failurs on that go for it...i chooze not to, you do wut you want.........and like i say, I see for the most part ya'll that condem me and others, do it outta love and for that I say thanks, and i have no problem with that........but to the people who "think" their smart cuz they went to college and have never messed up in life, who are quick to judge and condem, i say to you................hmmmm.....wut do i say to you.........I SAYYYYYYYYYY...........God bless..................Im not worried about it, my God loves me, he created all the stars in that big huge universe, and when I get to heaven He has a plant called the tree of life growing for me, its used as medicine to ensure that I live forever............I got to say that is dope......no I didnt say that the plant growing is dope.....I said the idea of me haveing a plant called the tree of life, that will keep me alive for ever, is "dope" just like that mc just cd is gonna be "dope" :lol:
holla atcha boy

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[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Dec 7 2004, 03:51 PM']

And Delivery Boy, stop misinterpreting Scripture. I already addressed that you are taking that passage out of context. It is in regards to Jewish dietary laws, and if you [u]read the rest of it[/u] you will find it instructs those early Christians not to look down on Christians who kept the old laws. It's about being scrupulous. Find a different verse to excuse bad behavior. [/quote]
peace to you
first off
your not my bible school teacher
im familer with the word from my father
I have the Good book open'd right now
and i disagree totally with you...
simple as that

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AND by the way I will keep reading
I like what I read, I'll share it with you

Romans 14:22

BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO DOES NOT CONDEMN HIMSELF FOR WHAT HE APPROVES
BUT WHOEVER HAS DOUBTS IS CONDEMNED IF HE EATS, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT FROM FAITH; FOR WHATEVER IS NOT FROM FAITH IS SIN



God bless you

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Well, as a former user, I know what kinds of imoral acts pot can make you do. I didn't read all of this thread because I have a short attention span. But, if anyone is trying to pass it off as being not a sin, they are so wrong. It is one of the worst things you can do. My friends taped some of the things that I did and it was one of the most life changing events I've ever had. Not only do you hurt others, but you also hurt your family and God when you use. So yes, smoking marijuana is a sin.

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[quote name='runner4god' date='Dec 7 2004, 04:06 PM'] Well, as a former user, I know what kinds of imoral acts pot can make you do.  I didn't read all of this thread because I have a short attention span.  But, if anyone is trying to pass it off as being not a sin, they are so wrong.  It is one of the worst things you can do.  My friends taped some of the things that I did and it was one of the most life changing events I've ever had.  Not only do you hurt others, but you also hurt your family and God when you use.  So yes, smoking marijuana is a sin. [/quote]
and im glad your convinced in your mind that its a sin
peace to you man



and by the way
you can say the same thing about alcahaul when its abused

abuseing stuff that alters your personality is a terrible thing
wether it be marijuana or alcahaul
God bless

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I find it funny that in my Bible this part of Chapter 14 is called "Consideration for the Weak Conscience."

I'm not interested in a Bible fight.

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