George Bush

[InHisHands381]

Maybe I misphrased what I was trying to say....Yes, I feel abortion should be illegal. I'm just trying to say that even if/when it is, people will still have abortions. For that reason, we must do much much more on a level below the government to work toward a culture of life rather than a culture of death. And as far as the welfare issue goes, I just made that comment because many people who avidly fight against abortion (at least people I've come in contact with) don't think about what will happen to that family after the child is born....

[Guest Earache]

Remember, abortion rates have actually INCREASED under George W. Bush's presidency compared to Clinton's, and Clinton was very much pro-choice.

In this election the voters didn't have a true pro-life candidate, since Bush is notoriously pro-death penalty (to the extent of killing the mentally disabled) and Kerry supports pro-choice. I think that if Bush was truly committed to building a "culture of life" in this country, he would reconsider his stance on state sponsored killing and stop trying to justify torture of "enemy" combatants, who are frequently found to be innocent.

I believe that a person must be pro-life not only in word, but in action. I would like to see research done into the root causes of abortion and address those issues, such as education and poverty. The past has shown that those who choose to get an abortion will find a way to do so even if abortion is illegal.

By the way, I'm a new poster. It figures that I'd jump right in and start causing trouble.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Earache' date='Dec 12 2004, 05:41 PM'] Remember, abortion rates have actually INCREASED under George W. Bush's presidency compared to Clinton's, and Clinton was very much pro-choice.

In this election the voters didn't have a true pro-life candidate, since Bush is notoriously pro-death penalty (to the extent of killing the mentally disabled) and Kerry supports pro-choice. I think that if Bush was truly committed to building a "culture of life" in this country, he would reconsider his stance on state sponsored killing and stop trying to justify torture of "enemy" combatants, who are frequently found to be innocent.

I believe that a person must be pro-life not only in word, but in action. I would like to see research done into the root causes of abortion and address those issues, such as education and poverty. The past has shown that those who choose to get an abortion will find a way to do so even if abortion is illegal.

By the way, I'm a new poster. It figures that I'd jump right in and start causing trouble. [/quote]
Abortion is wrong and violates natural law. The death penalty does not and cannot be totally condemned by the Church.

Most abortions are done on middle-class women, not the poor.
The causes of abortion are varied - stupidity and selfishness are high on the list.

Welcome to Phatmass.

[Guest Earache]

"Most abortions are done on middle-class women, not the poor.
The causes of abortion are varied - stupidity and selfishness are high on the list."

ctmotherofpirl, I respectfully disagree with your implication that economic status has little to do with the reason a woman gets an abortion. According to a study by Torres and Forrest (1998), the highest percentage of responders indicated that they were seeking an abortion because they did not have the financial resources to care for a child. This reason has been found in other studies, as well.

I will agree that many abortions are performed for selfish reasons, such as "not ready to have a baby," or, "will interfere with my life." Unfortunately, many of these women are not aware of the options that are available to them, or simply do not have access to these options.

[cmotherofpirl]

Economic reasons are never a reason to chop up a child.

Its an excuse.

There are too many people willing to adopt any child they can get.

[qfnol31]

I should know, my parents have adopted 5 times.

[Don John of Austria]

Most abortions are commited atthe behest of middle class women who say " I do not have the Financial resources" meaning the cost of this will crimp my life style. Women who have abortions are murderers and should be treated accordingly.

Edited December 12, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[InHisHands381]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 12 2004, 05:39 PM'] Most abortions are commited atthe behest of middle class women who say " I do not have the Financial resources meaning the cost of this will crimp my life style. Women who have abortions are murderers and should be treated accordingly. [/quote]
Well, many women who have abortions don't realize they are murdering. It's sad but true...

[quote]Economic reasons are never a reason to chop up a child.

Its an excuse.[/quote]

Well, that's clear to us. However, when you are in a situation where it seems like there is no way you can financially raise a child, that may not seem so clear.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Well, many women who have abortions don't realize they are murdering. It's sad but true...[/quote]


So what, I don't care if a psychopath knows he's murdering people, I still want him stopped and punished, these women are rational Human beings they know its murder, the Law of God is written on their heart, they simply deny it's murder to themselves it's no differantthan a rapist telling Himself that " she really wanted it, or lecherous man telling himself that sleeping around " doesn't hurt anybody" they know andthey should be Punished for their crimes agianst those they should have been willing to die for.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 12 2004, 06:17 PM']

So what, I don't care if a psychopath knows he's murdering people, I still want him stopped and punished, these women are rational Human beings they know its murder, the Law of God is written on their heart, they simply deny it's murder to themselves it's no differantthan a rapist telling Himself that " she really wanted it, or lecherous man telling himself that sleeping around " doesn't hurt anybody" they know andthey should be Punished for their crimes agianst those they should have been willing to die for. [/quote]
I agree they should be stopped, but i don't think they should be 'punished' per se. They should be educated about what they are doing, then if they're still evil enough to commit an abortion, then send em to jail (with no conjugal visitation rights) for life . . . or at least 'til menopause.

This would eliminate the physical threat to society from them. I'm not sure we could allow them out of jail after menopause though: they may influence others to commit abortions, in which case they're accessories to murder, and should still be locked up.

BTW, i think 'commit abortion' is a better description than 'have an abortion.' 'Have an abortion' sounds like 'have a pizza:' it's harmless. 'Commit an abortion' implies the gravity of the action. (And it also includes those who 'commit to' but are unsuccessful at killing their child.)

Peace,
Joe

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='InHisHands381' date='Dec 12 2004, 07:03 PM']
Well, that's clear to us. However, when you are in a situation where it seems like there is no way you can financially raise a child, that may not seem so clear. [/quote]
I think there are very few people in that situation. The poorest out there actually ARE having children while those who claim lack of finances are living in large homes with a couple cars in the driveway. I recently encountered a woman who got her tubes tied because they wanted to be able to maintain the same lifestyle and luxuries they currently did--not that they couldn't afford another child, but taking vacations and driving around atv's was more important. Very sad.

[Don John of Austria]

We Punished the Nazi's, the Holocaust was legal, many of them( the Nazi's) where in fear of there life if they did not obey, and still we punished them, these women murder their children willingly.

Edited December 13, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Dec 12 2004, 07:28 PM'] I think there are very few people in that situation. The poorest out there actually ARE having children while those who claim lack of finances are living in large homes with a couple cars in the driveway. I recently encountered a woman who got her tubes tied because they wanted to be able to maintain the same lifestyle and luxuries they currently did--not that they couldn't afford another child, but taking vacations and driving around atv's was more important. Very sad. [/quote]
yes it *is* quite sad. unfortunately, i think this is the norm today. Most people that don't want kids, don't want to give up their selfish lifestyles. In many ways, i think kids are God's way to force people to think of others . . . but unfortunately, we've caused a disconnect between the form of selfishness that causes unwanted children and the form of love that remedies that selfishness.

Peace,
Joe

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 12 2004, 07:31 PM'] We Punished the Nazi's, the Holocaust was legal, many of them( the Nazi's) where in fear of there life if they did not obey, and still we punished them, these women murder their children willingly. [/quote]
yes, but the nazis knew they were killing. many of these women don't realize that it *IS* a child. they believe that the child is a blob of tissue. (or at least they hope it's true) if we educate them on what is true and right, many would be horrified at what they'd done. That's punishment enough. There's no need for vindictiveness.

Peace,
Joe

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Very sad[/quote]
I must really be out of time because I don't find it sad at all, I find it infuriating, I would just as soon decapitate these people as look at them. Thats harsh but I just can't abide people so selfish that they would kill theit own Children for their "lifestyle".