cmotherofpirl Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 If your child smashes the furniture and then says he is sorry do you punish him? Yep, because of justice and logical consequences. If you murder, you forfeit your life in return - natural law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisHands381 Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I'd say sending someone to prison for the rest of their life (or even for a good chunk of their life) is also a form of punishment that essentially "forfeits their life" (they lose their priveleges and materialistic life yet still maintain their God-given human rights and life) without murdering them. They are still being rightly punished, but we are not killing them in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Just killing is not murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal5403 Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 [QUOTE]Both.[QUOTE] I would have to disagree, just because a school is Catholic doesn't make its acedemics superior to a public school's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal5403 Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 [quote]Just killing is not murder.[/quote] What is considered "just" killing. What happened to "Thou shall not kill" and "love thy enemies". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micheal5403 Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 [quote] yes I am saying that on the whole Public education in all subject areas is inferior to Catholic Education, and therefore on the whole children who attend public school recieve an education inferior to those who attend Catholic school.[/quote] What is your basis for this asumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisHands381 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Dec 11 2004, 10:46 PM'] Just killing is not murder. [/quote] The only thing I can think of that would qualify as "just" when it comes to killing is self-defense when your life is immediately endangered. And even then it still makes me sad. I don't consider someone being killed on death row as being just. While they are potentially a danger to lives, that's what prisons are for... So, (out of curiousity) do you support capital punishment? Or are you just trying to debate for the sake of presenting both sides? *Apologizes for taking this thread way off topic * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Micheal5403 [quote] What is your basis for this asumption. [/quote] It is not an assumption it is a statistical Fact, and holds true even when socioeconomic factors are taken into account, I just attended a seminar in october where Father Burrell of Notre Dame discussed the Study he and his Morman research Partner Had just concluded, Their findings where thet Catholic schools where overwelmingly Academicly superior not only to public schools but to ALL schools in the United States, the only area that they where slightly behind was secondary Science and that was because of lack of funds for lab equipment and materials. The only schools that came close to them were Jewish Day schools. "Thou shall not kill" Well see that commandment really doesn't exist, the commandment really translates better as Thou shalt not Murder even a short perusal throughthe Law of the old testment will show you that this regards Killing the Innocent not the Guilty. InHisHands381-- [quote] The only thing I can think of that would qualify as "just" when it comes to killing is self-defense when your life is immediately endangered. And even then it still makes me sad. I don't consider someone being killed on death row as being just. While they are potentially a danger to lives, that's what prisons are for... [/quote] Well It can be just to kill when your life is not immediatly in danger, it can be just to kill a prisoner, the Death penelty can certianly be Just. To answer your question I am fine with the Death Penalty, but I am not fie with the way it is used in this country, Death to protect society is fine( ands I think should probably be used more than it is) Death as vengence is not, our Laws are set so tht vengence can be inflicted on the Criminal and that is not right. So I am fine with the Death penelty I am not fine with the current use of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Prisons do not magically keep people from being violent. Rapists continue to rape, they just rape prisoners and Guards. And yes, I think rapists should be put to DEATH. DEATH. They should be killed, hung from the highest tree and left for the crows to eat their eyes. And until such time as the state returns to exacting that penalty, I think the citizens should form posses and do it. Killers still kill, or try to. Their victims change, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisHands381 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 [quote name='Winchester' date='Dec 12 2004, 10:38 AM'] Prisons do not magically keep people from being violent. Rapists continue to rape, they just rape prisoners and Guards. And yes, I think rapists should be put to DEATH. DEATH. They should be killed, hung from the highest tree and left for the crows to eat their eyes. And until such time as the state returns to exacting that penalty, I think the citizens should form posses and do it. Killers still kill, or try to. Their victims change, that's all. [/quote] Wow. Well, as far as the rapes in prison go, I personally know someone who works at a maximum securtiy prison (which is where murderers with a life sentence would be) and security is strict enough that that stuff does not happen often at all. It used to years ago, but today there is much less sever intraprison violence. That problem arises more in lower security prisons (where murderers would not be). I just don't see how you can send someone to their deathbed so easily. Don John of Austria: That makes me feel a bit better about your stance, yet I still have a hard time finding a just death sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 (edited) the death penalty is JUST when administered to any murderer. it should be limited, but any murderer who receives the death penalty receives it justly because it is what they deserved. any murderer whose life is spared is done so by mercy. mercy is good, and should be given to anyone who would not continue to be a threat to society if just jailed. but when murderers are put to death, it is 100% just every time. ppl on death row should follow the example of the good theif: this punishment WE DESERVE, and then look upon the one who was put to death who did not deserve it, Christ. that's what we should think of them as: people who deserve that punishment. the more mercy is factored in to the system, (mercy for those who can be contained without threat to society), the better. but no one who really murdered who is put to death by the state is done so unjustly. Edited December 12, 2004 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisHands381 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 I just don't understand how people can say killing is wrong by killing someone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 (edited) murder is wrong killing isn't ALWAYS killing is a grave but morally neutral action. it can only be justly done in self defense when one is not intending to murder but intending to defend themself and the death is accidental to their defense, or by the state who recognizes someone who justly deserves to die for their crime and by the God-given authority of the state puts them to death. Edited December 12, 2004 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisHands381 Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 Let's see what the Church has to say......CCC: [quote]2267 Asuming that the guilty party's identity and repsonsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the commonm good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person. Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possiblities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitively taking away from him the possiblity of redeeming himself - [b]the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."*[/b] *John Paul II, [i]Evangelium vitae[/i] 56.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted December 12, 2004 Share Posted December 12, 2004 which is why the state should mercifully spare such lives that can be contained without being a threat. however, every time the state executes someone who is a murderer, they exercise their God-given right as the legitimate authority. murderers deserve the death penalty, to spare them is mercy and good, but when they are executed it is just and cannot be considered murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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