John Kerry

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Show me where it says they are excommunionical offenses. [/quote]

Cmom I have shown you all of those three things are Heresies which have been defined and are all subject to Excommunication. Do we really need to get the Syllubus of Errors out agian?

[popestpiusx]

Do we really need a reason to get it out? It is such pleasurable reading that I am ususally looking for a reason to get it out. So to answer your question: yes! yes!

[Apotheoun]

In partial support of Amarkich I feel that it is important to remember that the use of contraceptives, if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent, is a mortal sin, and so anyone who uses them is no longer in full communion with the Catholic Church. The same holds in the case of divorce, if the divorced person contracts another marriage, for then he too is no longer in full communion with the Church; in other words, he is not permitted to receive sacramental communion until he confesses his sin and reforms his life. [cf. CDF [u]Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the Reception of Holy Communion by the Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful[/u]] Moreover, Catholics are not permitted to support the distribution or sale of contraceptives, nor are they to give support to legislation that permits divorce.

God bless,
Todd

[Guest Aluigi]

oops.. nvm

Edited November 29, 2004 by Aluigi

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Nov 29 2004, 03:40 PM']
Cmom I have shown you all of those three things are Heresies which have been defined and are all subject to Excommunication. Do we really need to get the Syllubus of Errors out agian? [/quote]
Yep you do. Show me where divorce and contraception are excommunicable offenses.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Yep you do. Show me where divorce and contraception are excommunicable offenses. [/quote]
He didn't say that go back and reread his post---he said that supporting those things through your vote "under the same circumstances as the five" excommunicated you. These things are intrinsicly Evil and by supporting them one commits one to the side of Evil more than that support for those things ha been specificly condemned as a heresy worthy of Excommunication. If you would like I will dig out the actual errors in a few minutes, first I have to write lesson plans.

[Don John of Austria]

okay here are the relevant errors all are condemned as heresy and all are therefore cause for Excommunication.

On divorce--67. By the law of nature, the marriage tie is not indissoluble, and in many cases divorce properly so called may be decreed by the civil authority. -- Ibid.; Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.

73. In force of a merely civil contract there may exist between Christians a real marriage, and it is false to say either that the marriage contract between Christians is always a sacrament, or that there is no contract if the sacrament be excluded. -- Ibid.; Letter to the King of Sardinia, Sept. 9, 1852; Allocutions "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852, "Multis gravibusque," Dec. 17, 1860

74\ Matrimonial causes and espousals belong by their nature to civil tribunals. -- Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9 1846; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851, "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851; Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.


on Seperation of Church and State--


41. The civil government, even when in the hands of an infidel sovereign, has a right to an indirect negative power over religious affairs. It therefore possesses not only the right called that of "exsequatur," but also that of appeal, called "appellatio ab abusu." -- Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851

42. In the case of conflicting laws enacted by the two powers, the civil law prevails. -- Ibid.

43. The secular Dower has authority to rescind, declare and render null, solemn conventions, commonly called concordats, entered into with the Apostolic See, regarding the use of rights appertaining to ecclesiastical immunity, without the consent of the Apostolic See, and even in spite of its protest. -- Allocution "Multis gravibusque," Dec. 17, 1860; Allocution "In consistoriali," Nov. 1, 1850.

44. The civil authority may interfere in matters relating to religion, morality and spiritual government: hence, it can pass judgment on the instructions issued for the guidance of consciences, conformably with their mission, by the pastors of the Church. Further, it has the right to make enactments regarding the administration of the divine sacraments, and the dispositions necessary for receiving them. -- Allocutions "In consistoriali," Nov. 1, 1850, and "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862.

45. The entire government of public schools in which the youth- of a Christian state is educated, except (to a certain extent) in the case of episcopal seminaries, may and ought to appertain to the civil power, and belong to it so far that no other authority whatsoever shall be recognized as having any right to interfere in the discipline of the schools, the arrangement of the studies, the conferring of degrees, in the choice or approval of the teachers. -- Allocutions "Quibus luctuosissimis," Sept. 5, 1851, and "In consistoriali," Nov. 1, 1850.

46. Moreover, even in ecclesiastical seminaries, the method of studies to be adopted is subject to the civil authority. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.

47. The best theory of civil society requires that popular schools open to children of every class of the people, and, generally, all public institutes intended for instruction in letters and philosophical sciences and for carrying on the education of youth, should be freed from all ecclesiastical authority, control and interference, and should be fully subjected to the civil and political power at the pleasure of the rulers, and according to the standard of the prevalent opinions of the age. -- Epistle to the Archbishop of Freiburg, "Cum non sine," July 14, 1864.

48. Catholics may approve of the system of educating youth unconnected with Catholic faith and the power of the Church, and which regards the knowledge of merely natural things, and only, or at least primarily, the ends of earthly social life. -- Ibid.

49. The civil power may prevent the prelates of the Church and the faithful from communicating freely and mutually with the Roman pontiff. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862.

50. Lay authority possesses of itself the right of presenting bishops, and may require of them to undertake the administration of the diocese before they receive canonical institution, and the Letters Apostolic from the Holy See. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.

51. And, further, the lay government has the right of deposing bishops from their pastoral functions, and is not bound to obey the Roman pontiff in those things which relate to the institution of bishoprics and the appointment of bishops. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852, Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.

52. Government can, by its own right, alter the age prescribed by the Church for the religious profession of women and men; and may require of all religious orders to admit no person to take solemn vows without its permission. -- Allocution "Nunquam fore," Dec. 15, 1856.

53. The laws enacted for the protection of religious orders and regarding their rights and duties ought to be abolished; nay, more, civil Government may lend its assistance to all who desire to renounce the obligation which they have undertaken of a religious life, and to break their vows. Government may also suppress the said religious orders, as likewise collegiate churches and simple benefices, even those of advowson and subject their property and revenues to the administration and pleasure of the civil power. -- Allocutions "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852; "Probe memineritis," Jan. 22, 1855; "Cum saepe," July 26, 1855.

54. Kings and princes are not only exempt from the jurisdiction of the Church, but are superior to the Church in deciding questions of jurisdiction. -- Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.

55. The Church ought to be separated from the .State, and the State from the Church. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852.


look particularly at 55 ( by they way 48 condemns approval of Public education)

[Don John of Austria]

is that enough?

[Guest Aluigi]

voting for bush is not promoting those evils. they exist, and the moment there is any slight chance they'll be taken down, I'm all for it. as it stands, we must first stop legalized murder and promote respect for human life from conception till natural death, and preserve the existing norms of Christian Morality that are recognized.

[Don John of Austria]

Cmom I am still waiting for your answer --- is that enough?

[cmotherofpirl]

Interesting, esp #48.
Catholic Schools today can be more dangerous to faith than public schools.
Where is it from?

Do you have anything a bit more current?

Edited December 1, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[Don John of Austria]

It is from the sylubus of errors prumigated by blessed Pius IX it is current as it is Dogmaticly difined just as the trinity is current or the transubstantition is current.

And I srongly object to your Characterization of Catholic schools-- statisticly far more faithful church attending magestiruim following Catholics come out of Catholic schools that anywhere else.

Edited December 1, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 30 2004, 05:48 PM'] voting for bush is not promoting those evils. they exist, and the moment there is any slight chance they'll be taken down, I'm all for it. as it stands, we must first stop legalized murder and promote respect for human life from conception till natural death, and preserve the existing norms of Christian Morality that are recognized. [/quote]
It is a material participation in evil, meaning we are participating in evil, but we aren't doing it for the sake of evil, and are doing it because we have no other good choice.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote]48. Catholics may approve of the system of educating youth unconnected with Catholic faith and the power of the Church, and which regards the knowledge of merely natural things, and only, or at least primarily, the ends of earthly social life. -- Ibid. [/quote]

How is it that this is to be strictly interpreted as being condemnation of public schooling as we define it today? To me, this speaks of more of a condemnation towards the erroneous belief that youth need not be educated with the faith at all.

[zwergel88]

aparently I one of onl 4 people who voted 'no'. I totally don't think that voting for Kerry was wrong.