In the very very.......very end

[Guest]

i was watchen the history channel the other night
they were haveing a show about missing books from the bible
in one of these books, it is revealed that after souls suffer in hell, they will be taken out and let into Heaven.......I almost hope this is true becuz i think it would smell of elderberries for a soul to have to suffer in hell for eternity.......And I want to believe that a all loveing God would in the very end have mercy on all the souls that he made to exist...and since God has the power to do anything, he is capable of doing this if he so desired....so will God have mercy on all, when its all said and done ?

Edited November 26, 2004 by Guest

[Don John of Austria]

They are not MISSING from the Bible they where never included in the Bible because the Early councils determined them to be in error/ heretical in there teachings.

Edited November 26, 2004 by Don John of Austria

[Guest Aluigi]

sorry, but no. hell is an eternal place, revelation is clear they will be cast into the eternal lake of fire. revelation IS the very very very very end of time.

"missing books" are simply books written by other Christians around the time period that the Catholic Church infallibly proclaimed not to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, while she infallilbly proclaimed the 27 books of the New Testament to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

the parable of Lazarus says that the great divide can not be crossed by either side between heaven and hell.

when the number of humans in heaven replaces all the spots vacated by the fallen angels, that will be the end of time.

once someone is in hell, they are in hell. they are not some well-intentioned person being tortured eternally (even if they were well-intentioned on earth). They are evil, they despise God. why? because the state of their soul when they entered into eternity was one stained with sin and evil. only within time can you change and mend your ways, if you enter into eternity evil, you are evil for all eternity.

that is who these souls are. God would have to change their very essence to bring them back into heaven. if He was going to do that, He might as well will them out of existence and create whole new ones that are forced to love God without any change of rejecting Him (this, of course, is not what God wants)

[Guest]

wouldnt a soul in hell be tortured to the point that it would crave with its whole existance to be back in Gods presence and love ?

Edited November 26, 2004 by Guest

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]when the number of humans in heaven replaces all the spots vacated by the fallen angels, that will be the end of time.[/quote]

interesting concept where did you get it.

[Guest]

how does satan get into heaven ??
and not to get scientific
but dont they say the big bang theory will happen again, like once the universe is done expanding it will come back together into the single atom it was before it all happened (i didnt state that very smart, hopefully you get what i mean)
and then wont everything happen all over again ?
so even though (if were saved and make it to heaven) we will be in heaven for eternity, wont at some point eternity run out, and then once again force everything that has happened to once again, happen again ?
therefore at some point wont satan be received back into heaven, where he will once again introduce sin, causeing us to fall again, and therefore haveing to once again have Christ take up the cross ?
im not tryen to piss anyone off lol these are jus ideas
have you ever seen the movie k-pax ?? thats sorta what im getting at here

[Guest Aluigi]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Nov 26 2004, 06:03 PM']
interesting concept where did you get it. [/quote]
i think Aquinas, but don't hold me to that. it's either that, or this book on angels that has a really old-school imprimature, nihil obstat, and imprimi potest.

DB, IF that scientific theory is correct, (it is just a theory, i heard it explained by my astronomy teacher it is quite interesting and they do all these mathematical calculations, but that doesn't mean it's true cause when it comes down to it even the premise for alot of the math is speculation), Eschatologically speaking, there still must be an eventual end to TIME, in which the earth and heavens will be remade and we will be perfectly united body and soul in the Eternal Beatific Vision.

satan never experienced the Beatific Vision, he like all the angels in the begining had spiritual paradise with God and they got arrogant and prideful and fell from grace.

he entered into eternity like that, and can never change back because he is not nor will ever be again subject to time. anyone entering into eternity with evil staining their soul remains evil for eternity, because they can no longer change (for time is a requirement of change)

[Guest Aluigi]

i have to learn not to use big words most people wouldn't understand

Eschatology is the ology (study of) the last things, the end times.

[Guest]

like say someone like the Notorius Big
( im guess'n you know who he is )
but anyway, he was shot and killed unexpectly
and im guessing that his soul had to be in a state of mortal sin
(although I cant know this for sure, i would just almost guess so becuz of the contents of his music and so forth) on his song suicidal thoughts he raps

"When I die, fu*k it I wanna go to hell
Cause I'm a piece of sh*t, it ain't hard to f*ckin' tell
It don't make sense, goin' to heaven wit the goodie-goodies
Dressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodies
God will probably have me on some real strict shi*
No sleepin' all day, no gettin my di*k licked
Hangin' with the goodie-goodies loungin' in paradise
Fu*k that sh*t, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice"

so i know its just art, but art reflects life, so right there it sounds his soul is in a terrible state......so when he died, which he did, unexpectly, will his soul (hypateticly, i know we dont know for sure) flea from the presnece of God, therefore makeing his eternity in hell forever ?? i pray that God could work something out for him, becuz he was a very talanted indivigual........i also though, find it interesting how you said how a soul will flea from God if its soul has evil in it....this isnt really on topic of what i was talking about, but im interested wut u think

Edited November 26, 2004 by Guest

[Guest Aluigi]

if he died and entered into eternity while in a state of mortal sin, yes he would not be able to stand to be in God's presence, neither could God stand to be in his presence (He cannot stand the presence of obstinant eternal sin) so the person would be damned for eternity. this is hypothetical, we do not know the state of his soul. there's always those 11th hour conversions, last second someone realizes they were all wrong in their life and in perfect contrition repents, so anyone could be in heaven, we do not know.

[Guest]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Nov 26 2004, 06:42 PM'] if he died and entered into eternity while in a state of mortal sin, yes he would not be able to stand to be in God's presence, neither could God stand to be in his presence (He cannot stand the presence of obstinant eternal sin) so the person would be damned for eternity.  this is hypothetical, we do not know the state of his soul.  there's always those 11th hour conversions, last second someone realizes they were all wrong in their life and in perfect contrition repents, so anyone could be in heaven, we do not know. [/quote]
but doesnt everyone have to stand in front of God to be judged ?
they just cant run away ??
so couldnt God at that time, forgive who ever he wanted,
and once they entered heaven, they would no longer have to sin, becuz sinning in heaven wouldnt be possible

Edited November 26, 2004 by Guest

[Guest Aluigi]

[quote]it is still God's wrath, but a more dynamic understanding to say that if He wanted to (which He does because He wills all men be saved, albeit His passive will) let the soul into heaven, it wouldn't want to go anyway because it is tainted by sin and dragged down by the own evil damage become inherent to the soul when it entered into eternity. God does beaver dam the person, because He cannot stand the presence of sin, and the person cannot stand the presence of God.[/quote]

yeah, they stand before God, and God says " Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41

the reason he does that is because to make them go to heaven would infringe up the free will of the soul, the soul wills itself to go to hell because it has become evil by nature by enterign eternity evil.

[JP2Iloveyou]

It's important to keep in mind here that not only is God all loving, he is also all just. In fact, the loving thing for God to do when a soul rejects him is to let that person go. Why? Because of our free will. God will not take back the gift he gave us in free will because he loves us so much. It is also the most just thing for God to condemn all of us to hell, but he offers us mercy. Some people, however, do not accept his mercy and must therefore accept his justice. Christ said to St. Faustina of the Blessed Sacrament when he gave her the Divine Mercy image that, if a soul will not pass through the doors of his mercy, then that sould will have to pass through the doors of his justice. None of us have done anything on our own merit to earn heaven. Even great and holy people like Pope John Paul II and Blessed Theresa of Calcutta (Mother Theresa) would be damned to hell if it weren't for the mercy offered by Jesus Christ.

[CatholicCrusader]

If anyone saith that a soul will, at the end of time, leave Hell and flea to God his Father, let him be anathema.

Lol, I just made that up, but the Church has condemned this as heresy... I just don't know where.

It is impossible for anyone to leave Hell. Unlike once saved, always saved: once damned, always damned holds true...

[Balthazor]

Such as cold is just the abscence of heat, isn't hell just the absence of God?