What is the Mystical Body of Christ?

[amarkich]

Aluigi, proposition number 5 is taught in both the CCC and Lumen Gentium (the CCC cites LG as its source). Here is the support:

CCC, Paragraph #836
"All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320

(from the American Bishops' website)
N.B., footnote 320 is to Lumen Gentium, 13

Lumen Gentium, 13:

13. "All men are called to this catholic unity which prefigures and promotes
universal peace. And in different ways to it belong, or are related: the
Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind,
called by God's grace to salvation."

N.B., this is the last paragraph in Article 13; the two preceeding paragraphs of Article 13 have more to say.


In any event, I think everyone would consider proposition 3 to be Protestant. Number 4 is the liberal "Catholic" belief that "Jews can be saved in their own 'Covenant'". Proposition 2 is also liberal insofar as it was defined otherwise by [i]Mystici Corporis Christi[/i]. I have read similar things to what jasJis posted, but that was written before it was more strictly defined by Pope Pius XI.

[Guest Aluigi]

the Body of Christ consists of the Church Militant, Church Suffering, and Church Triumphant. Those on earth related to the Church in intention of following God's will through the dictates of their conscience (if it is uninformed by the Church but they are not culpable) or imperfectly united to the Church through valid baptism and are again inculpably ignorant of the necessity of Christ's Church are not truly members of the Church Militant arm of the Mystical Body of Christ but upon death by the mercy of God may enter into the Church Suffering then Church Triumphant provided that at the moment of their death they were not culpable for the sin of separation and that they were united to the Church's intention in wanting to follow God's will during their life while not explicitly members, implicitly united to the Church.

your quotations, Amarkich, are perfectly orthodox. all men are [b]called[/b] to the Catholic Unity, some who are not explicit members of the Church can be united to it in a lesser [i]imperfect[/i] degree such that upon the moment of their death they will be united to the Church through God's Mercy.

In any event, one must say that there is no difference between the Mystical Body of Christ and the Catholic Church (Centered in Rome). There is no member of the Mystical Body of Christ who is not an explicit member of the Catholic Church (centered in Rome). However, those who are do not make up the Mystical Body of Christ may be imperfectly connected or related to it as Lumen Gentium says. Full members of the Church are the only ones truly incorperated into the Body of Christ, though imperfect 'members' may be incorperated into her at the moment of death receiving baptism through their desire for it upon the moment of death, their entrance into the Body of Christ is only effective upon their death and it is not assured this will happen.

Edited November 26, 2004 by Aluigi

[Catalyst]

centered in Rome....the church is not a building but is the gathering of His people. The church is all the bible believing Christains who hear the word of God, do the word of God with the right heart behind the two...

[Guest Aluigi]

its earthly center is in Rome, but it is stil Christo-centric. the earthly center is the place of the successor to Peter existing in order to keep everyone unified in the same Faith without doctrinal disagreement.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Nov 26 2004, 06:08 PM'] centered in Rome....the church is not a building but is the gathering of His people. The church is all the bible believing Christains who hear the word of God, do the word of God with the right heart behind the two... [/quote]
THe Body of Christ are those members[i] baptised[/i] into it.

[Guest Aluigi]

i would agree with cmom's statement as well somewhat. there is a complex issue at work here, but when we say the mystical body of Christ, i believe it should mean the Catholic Church, that the members of the Church Militant are only explicit members of her, that baptism outside her makes one imperfectly united to her but not a full member of the Mystical Body. non-Catholics who profess the name Christian and are validly baptized should be considered more closely related to the Mystical Body of Christ, seperated but still brethren in Christ, the Mystical Body of Christ does not include them but they are on some level imperfectly connected to the Body through their baptism.

I hope that makes sense.

-Pax-

[Guest Aluigi]

thinkin about that statement, it sounds like double speak doesn't it? let me try to clarify what I mean.

The Mystical Body of Christ includes three divisions, the Church Militant, the Church Faithful, and the Church Triumphant. Those in the Church militant are a a transforming group, people enter and leave, et cetera, it's borders are not as tightly defined as that of the people passed on from this life and secured into their eternal fate. Explicit members of the Catholic Church make up the Church Militant. People who profess to be Christians and are validly baptized have joined to follow the same trail somewhat, kinda dragged along by the Body of Christ but not really members. but if they stay inculpably ignorant until their dying day and also remain trying to do God's will through the dictates of their own conscience, thus not letting go of the Body of Christ's leg by which they are being dragged, they can be incorperated into the body at the end of their life.

[popestpiusx]

Number 1 is the correct answer. To justify #2 you would have to do quite a bit of equivocating.

[Guest Aluigi]

i too voted for #1. what do you think of my explanations, specifically my last post where i attempted to clarify?

[jasJis]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 26 2004, 05:26 PM'] Number 1 is the correct answer.  To justify #2 you would have to do quite a bit of equivocating. [/quote]
What's wrong with equivocating?

When it comes to God, our simple answer is rarely the complete answer.

To learn the Truth of Catholicism is to learn the Fullness of Truth

Edited November 27, 2004 by jasJis

[Catalyst]

Mother of pearl..did I not say hear and do the word so does that not imply baptism??

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Nov 26 2004, 09:30 PM'] What's wrong with equivocating?

When it comes to God, our simple answer is rarely the complete answer.

To learn the Truth of Catholicism is to learn the Fullness of Truth [/quote]
What's wrong with equivocating? It's wrong because we use the same words but not always with the same meaning. That's not the way to Truth. The answer of the Church is the complete answer and no equivocation is necessary.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Nov 27 2004, 02:24 AM'] Mother of pearl..did I not say hear and do the word so does that not imply baptism?? [/quote]
No hearing and doing God's word does not imply Baptism.
Many people today seem to forget baptism is a requirement for entrance into God's kingdom and the possibility of salvation.

[Catalyst]

yeah, but many people today don't apply the bible to their lives. Were not talking about many peoples views..were talking about Gods. Yes, we can know them, thats why we have scripture

[jasJis]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 27 2004, 01:00 AM'] What's wrong with equivocating? It's wrong because we use the same words but not always with the same meaning. That's not the way to Truth. The answer of the Church is the complete answer and no equivocation is necessary. [/quote]
Then you must use the COMPLETE answer of the Church. Call it equivocating, or call it a complicated answer. The question is not answered with one small sentence because it isn't the full truth and thus, gives short shrift to the Fullness of Truth that the Catholic Church provides to answer this question.