FSSP Seminaries

[Guest Aluigi]

is it just me, or do these seminaries look like they're overflowing: [url="http://fssp.org/en/seminaireD.htm"]http://fssp.org/en/seminaireD.htm[/url]

i think we should have more fssp seminaries, what about you?

[Guest Aluigi]

bump. check out their website, the flash intro is dope

[url="http://fssp.org"]http://fssp.org[/url]

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Yes. There should be more FSSP parishes too.

[Guest Aluigi]

Amen.

FSSP is soo dope.

[CatholicCrusader]

While the Novus Ordo seminaries are empty, the Traditional Latin Mass seminaries overflow.

[God Conquers]

That's quite a blanket statement there bud.

I know quite a few normal seminaries that are overflowing.

[Dave]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 25 2004, 04:44 PM'] While the Novus Ordo seminaries are empty, the Traditional Latin Mass seminaries overflow. [/quote]
The key is orthodoxy, and "normal" seminaries that are also orthodox are overflowing.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I would imagine they'd be overflowing since there is only two of them right now.

[Carnanc]

those seminaries look pretty cool!

[JP2Iloveyou]

Just throwing it out there, but I have quite a few connections to the Diocese of Lincoln, NE where one of the FSSP seminaries is located, Our Lady of Guadaloupe. I have heard from many faithful and orthodox priests, who love the Latin Mass, both Tridentine and Novus Ordo, that the FSSP seminary is kind of out of control there. They have told me on more than one occasion that even though FSSP is "in union with the Church," there is a sense of arrogance there that the novus Ordo is inferior and those who follow it are inferior. They won't go so far as the SSPX crowd, but I do know that Bishop Bruskewitz has had to reprimand them on more than one occasion for criticizing the Pope, Vatican II, etc.

I have no problem with the Tridentine Mass. My problem lies in the fact that "traditional" Catholics often times have a sense of arrogance. I am a big fan of EWTN, but I am beginning to see this creep in more and more on their site as well. In my humble opinion, it is disturbing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Mass in the vernacular. If you prefer it in Latin, fine, but don't criticize Vatican II, JP2, or "contemporary" as opposed to "traditional" Catholics. There is only one Church. That one Church is composed of many rites and Churches (I know, that's confusing, but trust me. It's a different use of the word "Church.") None of the rites are superior or inferior to any of the others.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 25 2004, 05:44 PM'] While the Novus Ordo seminaries are empty, the Traditional Latin Mass seminaries overflow. [/quote]
Wrong.

[amarkich]

Sorry Adam didn't log out...

Edited November 25, 2004 by amarkich

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote]I have heard from many faithful and orthodox priests, who love the Latin Mass, both Tridentine and Novus Ordo, that the FSSP seminary is kind of out of control there.  They have told me on more than one occasion that even though FSSP is "in union with the Church," there is a sense of arrogance there that the novus Ordo is inferior and those who follow it are inferior.[/quote]

You don't have to be at Our Lady of Guadalupe to be able to see that fact (at least the former). The TLM is far superior. As far as those who follow the NO, that is probably a judgment of the conscience of those who make the argument that the TLM is superior.

[quote]They won't go so far as the SSPX crowd, but I do know that Bishop Bruskewitz has had to reprimand them on more than one occasion for criticizing the Pope, Vatican II, etc.[/quote]

It's not a sin to criticize the Pope. In fact, it can be a sin not to if he is acting in a sinful manner. If someone would have said to Alexander VI: you need to stop having affairs, maybe there wouldn't have been the corruption.

[quote]I have no problem with the Tridentine Mass.  My problem lies in the fact that "traditional" Catholics often times have a sense of arrogance.[/quote]

It's not arrogant to state a fact, the fact being the superiority of the TLM over the NO. That is certainly a viable option, whether or not you agree with it (and I think if you did the research and really understood and examined the Liturgy, you would agree).

[quote]I am a big fan of EWTN, but I am beginning to see this creep in more and more on their site as well.  In my humble opinion, it is disturbing.[/quote]

I'd say it's quite the opposite. They STILL have someone on EWTN trying to defend the desecration of the Fatima Shrine!

[quote]There is absolutely nothing wrong with Mass in the vernacular.  If you prefer it in Latin, fine, but don't criticize Vatican II, JP2, or "contemporary" as opposed to "traditional" Catholics.[/quote]

There was a lot wrong with it up until 1962: it was invalid... maybe these people are just trying to show why it was never done in the past--the types of abuses that can so easily come, as well as the rejection of a [b]T[/b]radition that comes from the Apostles.

[quote]There is only one Church.  That one Church is composed of many rites and Churches (I know, that's confusing, but trust me.  It's a different use of the word "Church.")  None of the rites are superior or inferior to any of the others.[/quote]

Exactly... and we are a part of the LATIN Rite... the vernacular Novus Ordo Mass is not a different rite. It is still a part of the Latin Rite, so the argument that no Rite is better than another is not an argument in this case, as we are discussing Masses said all within the same Rite.

[Dave]

CatholicCrusader:

As for criticizing the pope, that's not a sin in itself. But HABITUAL, CONSTANT criticism of the pope can be. It can give scandal to those who may be weak in their faith. Members of the SSPX and other traditionalist schismatic groups got their start by criticizing the pope mercilessly. And we know what Jesus said about those who give scandal -- that it would be better for a millstone to be tied around their neck and be thrown into the sea. And then there's the potential sin of calumny, which can happen if you don't make enough effort to find out the facts behind what the pope does or doesn't do. Surely you know that's a mortal sin too.

You also seem to forget that the Mass is holy, by definition, regardless of whether it's Tridentine or Novus Ordo. The holiness of the Mass is not dependent upon the priest or the people, but solely upon Christ. The Church has spoken, the debate is ended.

Secondly, the so-called negative fruits of the current Mass are not the fruits of the Novus Ordo at all. Logic 101 states, correlation DOES NOT EQUAL causation.

The cause of all the negative and liberal fruits that was seen after Vatican II were, to begin with, present before Vatican II.

ALL of the liberal abuses after Vatican II were committed by PRE-VATICAN II priests and bishops. The liberal issues were already in play for decades. This liberalization was just not generally known among the faithful. For the most part it remained behind cloistered walls and rectory doors.

After Vatican II, in the turmoil of the social upheaval, the liberalization became grossly public and was publicly pursued by those pre-Vatican II priests and bishops who were angry that Vatican II did not support the liberal agenda.

In addition to this dynamic, the social revolution that was occurring was also a major factor in creating the mess.

But for Vatican II itself, the fruits are overwhelmingly positive with those who respect Vatican II instead of attack it (the traditionalists) or abuse it (the liberals).

For those who are truly loyal Catholics the Council returned us to a greater and deeper devotion and prayer of most ancient prayers than the Tridentine Mass included, reminded us that the faithful were to pursue holiness and not just the priests and religious, called religious orders to examine themselves and return to the charism of their founders (which most did not do), reminded the faithful that the original intent of the Church was to have the faithful in active participation in the Mass, and not be mere spectators or abusive to the Mass by praying private devotions (like the Rosary) during the Mass, etc., etc., etc.

The issue is not Vatican II or the Novus Ordo; the issue is the abuse of the teachings of Vatican II and the directives of the Roman Missal.

I hate to tell you, but not accepting Vatican II is objectively a mortal sin (one of heresy or schism -- or maybe both), and badmouthing the Novus Ordo Mass could be blasphemy -- another mortal sin.

[CatholicCrusader]

Dave, nice to talk with you again. God bless.

I am sad to say there were many errors in what you wrote, but I do not have the time right now to address them. I am going to go spend some time with my parents. I will hopefully address what you wrote soon.

God bless.