Cure of Ars Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all" I fall into this catigory when it comes to good old Martin Sheen and I feel the same about Pope Ted Kennedy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Profile of Courage in the entertainment industry: "Only in America we kill the unborn to make end meet". Name the song and artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Actually I think Martin Sheen deserves support for standing up for his faith in what is a very anti - Christian environment (Hollywood, show business) which promotes a general life style that is often very damaging to people. He states very clearly that he is opposed to abortion and he is right when he says that ultimately it's the woman's choice - it doesn't matter how much you might 'educate' or legislate about abortion, if a woman wants to go ahead with one then she will, the history of 'back street' abortions is evidence of this. I'm also surprised at the suggestion that he should be criticised because he is a democrat! Linking political parties to a particular faith is always odd to me - in Britain of the three main political parties, two of the leaders are practising Catholics and one is an Anglican married to a practising Catholic - which one is the right one?! The influence that Martin Sheen might have in leading people to explore the Catholic faith, just by stating that he is a practising Catholic should not be underestimated. I found Phatmass through a search on Mark Wahlberg who features on the celebrities page, and I have learnt much since I've been coming here and have most certainly drawn nearer to converting as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Ellenita: I don't know what you've heard about the history of back alley abortions, but they weren't as common as many people make them out to be. And in Britain, I don't know anything about the 2 practicing Catholic candidates, but I do know that Tony Blair, the Anglican married to a Catholic, is anti-life, and so he doesn't deserve anyone's votes. And if the other 2 Catholics are anti-life, they don't deserve votes either! Did you even read my earlier post? The Democratic Party's platform is pro-abortion. Of course, there are pro-life Democrats out there, but they're VERY rare. And as for Martin Sheen standing up for his faith in a very anti-Christian environment, it seems to me he's compromised it instead! You also say abortion is ultimately the woman's choice. I got news for you -- no one, but NO ONE, has the right to choose to do what is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 Actually I think Martin Sheen deserves support for standing up for his faith in what is a very anti - Christian environment (Hollywood, show business) which promotes a general life style that is often very damaging to people. He states very clearly that he is opposed to abortion and he is right when he says that ultimately it's the woman's choice - it doesn't matter how much you might 'educate' or legislate about abortion, if a woman wants to go ahead with one then she will, the history of 'back street' abortions is evidence of this. I'm also surprised at the suggestion that he should be criticised because he is a democrat! Linking political parties to a particular faith is always odd to me - in Britain of the three main political parties, two of the leaders are practising Catholics and one is an Anglican married to a practising Catholic - which one is the right one?! The influence that Martin Sheen might have in leading people to explore the Catholic faith, just by stating that he is a practising Catholic should not be underestimated. I found Phatmass through a search on Mark Wahlberg who features on the celebrities page, and I have learnt much since I've been coming here and have most certainly drawn nearer to converting as a result. I agree with you that being Catholic has very little to do with what Political Party you belong to. My gradnparents are Pro-Life Democrats. There are others like them. Still, in the United States, the platform of the Democratic Party is directly at odds with the teachings of the Church on several issues that the church asks us to hold as of FIRST AND FOREMOST importance in organizing our society. These are the right to life of the unborn, the institution of the family, and Religious freedom and the education of our children. In each of these three areas the Democratic Platform is explicitly anti-Catholic. Martin Sheen is accepted in hollowed, despite his faith, because he chooses to advocate those issues that Hollywood already loves. Hollywood doesn't mind if you believe in God so long as the God you believe in will permit you to be silent on homosexual relations, sex outside of marriage, and abortion. Martin Sheen is noticeably silent on those issues. But when he USES the church to get across his anti-Bush, anti-Iraq conflict message, then he is celebrated. Gimme a break. Finally, even pro-lifers recognize that a person can commit a horribly evil act regardless of the laws that restrict it. However, I think Martin does a disservice to all humanity when he says "It's her choice, I can't really judge her for that act." when we are talking about human lives! He doesn't extend that logic to the President and War . . . he doesn't say "I'm personally opposed to bombing another country and killing their civilians, but Heck, it's the presidents choice, it is legal and I just hope he does it in the safest possible way." Of course not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Martin Sheen thinks its ok to kill babies, but not people on death row. and THATS consistant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I'm inclined to be against abortion of any life. But I am equally against the death penalty or war - anywhere people are sacrificed for some end justifying a means. I don't think abortion is a good idea. I personally am opposed to abortionThat sounds fairly definite doesn't it?! I certainly don't think he is saying it's OK to kill babies, but rather more that it's not OK to kill anyone. Dave, you said No one, but no one has the right to choose to do what is wrong. But clearly we do - God gave us free will, we can choose to follow His path, the right path, the one which is obviously the best path for us, or we can choose to do what is wrong and ultimately face the consequences of that. I don't feel I can judge others for taking the 'wrong path', though I do think it's my responsibility to talk to people about what I know of God's grace, love and mercy. I agree with you, it's difficult to know how common back street abortions were (and still are in some countries). I suspect however that they were perhaps more common than is known as it would seem logical to me that some women who knew they were committing an illegal act would not declare the fact. I'm sorry if I didn't interpret your comments about the Democrat party correctly - I honestly don't know enough about American politics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 Elenita, I think you missed Dave's point. He did not say you cannot choose to do what is wrong, only that you do not have a RIGHT to choose to do something wrong, in the case of abortion HEINOUS! And in terms of "back alley" abortions, let's be serious. Had abortin been legal in the 1940's-60's thousands of women would have died from legal abortions because medical procedures were not as advanced. No one can claim that we're going to somehow undo technology if we make abortion illegal. We make murder illegal, but people still use "high tech guns" to kill people. They haven't resorted to old fashioned stonings just because it's illegal Also, Dr. Bernard Nathanson who founded the Abortion Rights Action League has admitted publicly that the statistics they used to demonstrate that THOUSANDS of women were dying from illegal abortions were ludicrous and completely false. He said there were NO NUMBERS on this and he and other pro-abortion groups just fabricated the numbers because they "sounded good." Since his days as America's #1 abortion provider, Dr. Nathanson has become a Roman Catholic and is actively pro-life. Finally, I don't think that Martin Sheen's statement about being 'inclined' to be against abortion is a resounding pro-life statement. And if he is so equally against abortion, why do we not see him protesting abortion or dissasociating himself from pro-abortion politicians. He campaigned for Gray Davis and for Al Gore, both of whom are notorious pro-aborts. I just can't picture him campaigning aside of George Bush because he rejects his Iraq War decision. If he's equally against abortion and war why would he associate with pro-aborts but not pro-war people? Again, this just goes to show that he's a fraud and a sham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 He is personally opposed, but its ok for other people is a cop-out argument. Our politicians use it on a regular basis. And while he is not a politician, he is a public figure. If he is going to take the moral high ground for peace and justice as a CAtholic, then he should at least be consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 That's why I stopped listening to Rush Limbaugh years ago. He claims to be pro-life, but when asked whether or not he'd allow his daughter to have an abortion, he said he'd leave the decision up to her. He later tried to backtrack, but the damage was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Profile of Courage in the entertainment industry: "Only in America we kill the unborn to make end meet". Name the song and artist. "Only in America" by Creed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 That's why I stopped listening to Rush Limbaugh years ago. He claims to be pro-life, but when asked whether or not he'd allow his daughter to have an abortion, he said he'd leave the decision up to her. He later tried to backtrack, but the damage was done. WHAT???!!! Rush Limbaugh actually said that???!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I think you missed Dave's point. He did not say you cannot choose to do what is wrong, only that you do not have a RIGHT to choose to do something wrong. Blazer, if we're going to debate rights here I can see I'm going to get myself tied up in knots! Personally I do not believe anyone has the right to take another person's life, but I also know that's a difficult arguement in the light of a 'just war' such as WW2 might be described. In terms of back street abortions, I would not hold to the claim that thousends of women died as a result. It would be difficult to sustain such an arguement since the recording of what caused the death was not always accurate in the past. Anyway, the physical, psychological and spiritual damage suffered by women who have abortions (and incidently I don't believe men are innocent of this either!) is impossible to measure. The point I was making is that we cannot know how many back street abortions were taking place since by the very fact that they were illegal, there would inevitably be a silence around the whole matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 You know, you guys are right. I am going to just walk up to every woman who has had an abortion right now...and instead of just trying to provide them with services that help them I am going to say proudly, "I love you, even though you killed a baby - like, I love you, but I just want to make sure that you know for the sake of your soul, that you're a baby killer' o.k.? It seems like that is the only way for a pro-lifer to be. Thank you for convincing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 You do your best to twist what we say. Why? Where did anybody say remotely what you said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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