sex in heaven

[Azriel]

[quote name='Oik' date='Nov 30 2004, 05:40 PM'] Good point.




Read: [url="http://ccli.org/breastfeed/bresf.shtml"]Ecological Breastfeeding[/url]

This denotes more...only roughly 70 percent of women breast feed and only 25 percent breast feed until the sixth month...

Plainly speaking, women aren't breastfeeding very long so of course ovulation is going to return. Also, if ovulation does return, it is possible that it is temporary and that the mother just needs to make some adjustment(s). [/quote]
Thanks for the link Oik ... it was fascinating, especially to me ... a Mother who is still breastfeeding at 11 months.

Hijack over ...

[Oik]

What is really excting is sharing the Truth about our bodies to all of the non-christians at my very liberal, feminist college. Most people don't even know about NFP or the suppression of ovulation thru ecological breastfeeding. On a daily basis I here about contraception being good and abortion okay. Casual sex is joked about and encouraged, so it is always nice for me to inform others about God's real plan for fertility. Some of the women are even mothers and have children, so I don't mind sharing a link or information when I get the chance.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
12/1 - First Wednesday

If one wants to respond to the Holy Father's thought on the subject of sex, he needs to go to Aquinas and Aristotle to find his foundation.

Since you refuse to address the issue at hand with an argument, I will supply you with what I believe are the Holy Father's arguments.

(1) If the human person is the kind of thing that must love and be loved, then the only proper response to the human person is love.
(2) The human person is the kind of thing that must love and be loved.
(3) Therefore, the only proper response to the human person is love. {1,2}

(4) If (3), then this response we commonly call "friendship."
(5) (3).
(6) Therefore, this response we commonly call "friendship." {4,5}

Now, there are three types of friendship (this is in Aristotle and Aquinas (Ia-IIae)) - friendship of utility, friendship of pleasure, and friendship in virtue. John Paul aptly states, though, that marriage does not easily fit within any of these categories; marriage must be a friendship of "betrothal" (his term), whereby the "two become one flesh." This indirectly mirrors the love of God for himself (again, go to Aristotle and Aquinas (Ia) to figure this one out).

(7) If God loves himself to the point of total union, and friendship of betrothal mirrors the love of God for himself, then friendship of betrothal must love to the point of total union.
(8) God love himself to the point of total union.
(9) Friendship of betrothal mirrors the love of God for himself.
(10) Therefore, friendship of betrothal must love to the point of total union. {7,8,9}

(11) If (10), and true happiness consists in being God-like, then men are truly happy when they love to total union.
(12) (10)
(13) True happiness consists in being God-like.
(14) Therefore, men are truly happy when they love to total union. {11,12,13}

"Total union," in a friendship of betrothal, is sexual intercourse, which [i]must[/i] terminate in sexual climax in order to be a true act of charity. It follows from the last argument that this is a foretaste of Heaven, since (10) and (13).

***

Ok, you made the accusation that his philosophy is vulgar and are throwing stuff at him like a monkey in a zoo. I've even been so charitable as to lay out his argument for you, so that you don't have to read [i]Love and Responsibility[/i]. If my argument is weak or misrepresents John Paul, let me know. Otherweise, either give me an argument against the Holy Father or tell me that you don't have one.

[vianney]

ha ha bump

[reelguy227]

There is something Im really disappointed about everyone . By the looks of this thread ,you guys are saying that we wont be with our spouse in heaven????????????? I mean ,come one . Whats the reason of getting married if you are not going to be with that person forever ,this stinks !!!

God Bless,
Ricky

[Guest Aluigi]

that's what Jesus taught

The Holy Gospel According to St. Matthew 22:23-33 23 That day there came to him the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection; and asked him, 24 Saying: Master, Moses said: If a man die having no son, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up issue to his brother. 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first having married a wife, died; and not having issue, left his wife to his brother. 26 In like manner the second and the third and so on, to the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 At the resurrection therefore, whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her. 29 And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married, but shall be as the angels of God in heaven. 31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken by God, saying to you: 32 I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living. 33 And the multitudes hearing it were in admiration at his doctrine.

you know the marriage vows: till death do you part.

widows and widowers can remarry, because death breaks the marriage bond. marriage is for this life, for love and union and procreation. in heaven, everyone is fully united and in the presence of He who is Love Himself, and do not procreate.

Edited December 2, 2004 by Aluigi

[toledo_jesus]

In Heaven, nothing from this world will matter. We'll be united in spirit, in the presence of God, and it will be much better than being married or having sex. It's hard to imagine being so happy that you don't miss anything. It's impossible to imagine the eternal joy of being in Heaven with God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='reelguy227' date='Dec 1 2004, 11:27 PM'] There is something Im really disappointed about everyone . By the looks of this thread ,you guys are saying that we wont be with our spouse in heaven????????????? I mean ,come one . Whats the reason of getting married if you are not going to be with that person forever ,this stinks !!!

God Bless,
Ricky [/quote]
You can be with your spouse , you will just be too busy adoring God to be having sex.

[Guest Aluigi]

they won't be your spouse anymore though. you will neither marry nor be married.

[reelguy227]

I wasnt talking about sex ,I was talking about just being with my spouse ,hasnt anybody ever heard the phrase "marriage is forever" ? What about being with my family ? Will I not be with them to ? This really stinks

God Bless,
Ricky

[Guest Aluigi]

marriage is till death do you part.

you can be with them as well as your family. you'll all be in the beatific vision and perfectly united to everyone else in the communion of saints, there's no need for the marital union.

[reelguy227]

Thats kind of dumb ,but no offense to God or anything.Whats the point of getting married then ,if you cant be with them forever ,maybe I shouldnt get married ?

God Bless,
Ricky

Edited December 2, 2004 by reelguy227

[Guest Aluigi]

the point is procreation
the point is deep love and union
the point is that the two become one flesh

it's a good thing. not being married in heaven doesn't invalidate your marriage on earth!

[Guest JeffCR07]

Reelguy, for your benefit, I will re-post my earlier response, which deals with the ultimate beauty of sex and marriage:

[quote]As John Paul II and the Church have taught us, the reason that sex is so good is because it is one thing on earth that most closely images the Most Holy Trinity. We understand the Trinity as being a Perfect Exchange of Love, in which the Father infinitely loves the Son, the Son infinitely returns the love of the Father, and that Love between them is the Holy Spirit.

Sex, in turn, is an icon of this Trinitarian relation within the Godhead, for only in sex does the husband unconditionally love the wife, the wife unconditionally love the husband, and the love between them can indeed beget a third person, namely, a child.

Now, we humans are, in our nature and essence, a union of spiritual and physical. Thus, it is only good and proper that the act of imaging the Blessed Trinity, which is a supreme spiritual good, also be an act that is physically pleasing. However, it is only because we have Fallen and are no longer in a state of Sanctifying Grace that we can intellectually seperate that which was, originally, not seperate. Thus, we, in our sinfulness, seperate the physical aspect of sex from the spiritual and seek and value only the former, rather than celebrating the latter and former together, as is good and proper.

Now, with this all being understood, let us address the question: will there be sex in heaven?

The answer is a definitive "No." Before, however, one rails on how "terrible" this fact is, I urge everyone to strongly consider the reasoning why, and it will all be made clear:

As we have said, sex is good precisely because it images the Trinity. After Christ's Second Coming, however, we will live, physically, with Christ, and will be in perfect communion with the Trinity. Moreover, we will actually ourselves partake in that Divine Love, or, more directly, we will actually and really partake in the Divine Life of the Trinity. For that reason, there will be no need - or desire - for sex, why in the world would we desire the image or icon of a thing when the thing itself is open to us?

Allow me to draw a useful analogy that I believe will bring home the point:

The reason we value a family picture is because when we are away from home it allows us to look upon an image of our loved ones and feel, in some small way, reunited with them, though far away they may be. Certainly, looking at the picture is pleasurable, however, if we had the choice between looking at the picture or being actually and really reunited with them, we will of course choose to be with them really. Moreover, one cannot look at the picture and "be with" family simultaneously for two reasons. First, if we could imagine both together, we see immediately that drawing attention to the picture brings attention away from the family. Second, and more important, the picture loses its value when the family is there: The picture is only worthwhile when we are seperated from the family, and so is unnecessary (and even a waste) when we are with them.

Like the analogy of the picture, sex helps us to "remember" God and to be united in a small way during our time of seperation. However, when we are really, truly, and eternally reunited with Christ Jesus, and have the opportunity to forever partake in the Divine Life of the Trinity, not only would sex draw attention from that greatest of mysteries, but it would, really and truly, lose its value and efficacy.[/quote]

Now, I would also like to make a further point: The end goal of marriage is to icon the Most Holy Trinity, and, as we have seen, this is done through the marriage act.

However, heaven - and perfect communion with God - is precisely what marriage seeks to [i]image[/i]. This means that the union that we feel with our spouse in marriage is simply an image of the union we feel with God in heaven, the latter being infinitely greater than the former.

Now, here is the critical point: If we are in Perfect Communion with God in Heaven, then we are thus also in Perfect Communion with each other in Heaven, and this communion with each other is infinitely greater than the unitive bond of marriage.

So let us imagine a husband and wife who die and go to heaven:

On earth, the husband and wife had a strong unitive bond between them, in the form of the Sacrament of Marriage. In heaven, not only do the two people who were once husband and wife have an infinitely stronger unitive bond with God, but they also have an infinitely stronger unitive bond with each other, and all the rest of the saints who are in a state of Sanctifying Grace.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[Guest]

ok, this is not a insult to God
but is that all we will do in Heaven, is worship God ??
im not mad if thats the case.....cuz he's God and I love God
but i keep hearing there will be no time for sex, cuz we will be worshiping God
is this all we will do ?? and how does anyone know if this is all we will do ??
I find that hard to belive....I better be playen basketball at some point