Sport Hunting

[ironmonk]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Nov 23 2004, 06:02 PM'] Yeah, I was going to ask what was meant by "sport hunting"--I think most people who go hunting (at least here in the US) actually eat what they kill (deer, pheasant, etc.)--everyone I know who goes hunting I know does.

But if you're talking about people who do things like go on fox hunts, or safari hunting just for the thrill of running after an animal and killing... thats not cool. I think that is probably at least a venial sin. [/quote]
It is a mortal sin... it falls under the 7th Commandment.




[i]Respect for the integrity of creation[/i]

[b]2415 [/b]
The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man's dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196

[b]2416 [/b]
Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 [b]Thus men owe them kindness. [/b]We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

[b]2417 [/b]
[b]God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image[/b].198 Hence it is [b]legitimate to use animals for food and clothing[/b]. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

[b]2418[/b]
It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.


195. Cf. Gen 1:28-31.
196. Cf. CA 37-38.
197. Cf. Mt 6:26; Dan 3:79-81.
198. Cf. Gen 2:19-20; 9:1-4.


[url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art7.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art7.htm[/url]





God Bless,
ironmonk

[Crusader_4]

I think as mentioned and repeated for the millionith time it depends on the intent. When i go hunting i go for the food the thrill of being outdoors in nature doing an activity. When i go fishing i catch to kill hahah bad pun on Catch and relase cuz i love fish and i have to survive those long dreary Lenten days somehow.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 23 2004, 05:49 PM'] It is a mortal sin... it falls under the 7th Commandment.
[/quote]
I understand all that, I guess I was just thinking that the person committing the sin would have to have full knowledge and consent of will and all that, fitting the criteria for it to be mortal. I agree that its certainly grave matter, but I tried to keep in mind that someone might act and be ignorant of the gravity (possibly very rare, but I'm willing to at least give the benefit of a doubt for some cases).

[popestpiusx]

It is not a mortal sin to go on a fox hunt. That's absurd.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 23 2004, 11:28 PM'] It is not a mortal sin to go on a fox hunt.  That's absurd. [/quote]
I'm not so sure I understand how it's not at least grounds for being a mortal sin... how is something like a fox hunt being a good steward of God's creation and legitimate use of the animals for food or clothing? Isn't is basically just running around on horses with a pack of dogs trying to hunt down an animal and kill it for "sport"?

For the record I did vote "no", with the general understanding that "sport hunting" was referring to things like hunting deer. Don't get me wrong, if you have a pest like a racoon or something I'm all for getting rid of it, and that usually means shooting it, I'm not an animal loving-tree hugging "weirdo". I just don't see how a passtime like fox hunts or safari hunts are 100% acceptable. If you can give me good reason and proof that I'm wrong then I'm willing to accept that.

Edited November 24, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 24 2004, 12:28 AM'] It is not a mortal sin to go on a fox hunt. That's absurd. [/quote]
Why isn't it?

You are going out with 20 + dogs, a bunch of horses, and a lot of guns to be entertained while the the dogs rip the fox apart.

That is disgusting and sinful.

It falls in the same category as big game hunters, who kill things to hang dead heads in their dens.

This is totally different than bagging a deer with gives you 75 lbs of meat that you actually feed your kids with.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 24 2004, 12:28 AM'] It is not a mortal sin to go on a fox hunt. That's absurd. [/quote]
If the fox is dying needlessly, then it is a mortal sin to someone who has been told that it is a sin to kill animals needlessly. A farmer hunting a fox that raids a hen house is not a sin... the english fox hunts are.

On a side note a fox hunt is for cowards to make them feel like men... there is no sport in having dozens of dogs rip apart a fox.


Read the Catechism piece above.

Either be Catholic, or don't be Catholic... the choice is yours. One faith.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 24 2004, 09:17 AM']
Either be Catholic, or don't be Catholic... the choice is yours. One faith.


[/quote]
Are you implying that if I don't buy your argument that a fox hunt is a mortal sin, that I am somehow not Catholic?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Nov 24 2004, 11:06 AM'] Are you implying that if I don't buy your argument that a fox hunt is a mortal sin, that I am somehow not Catholic? [/quote]
I'm saying that if you are obstinate the teaching of the Church, then you don't know what it means to be Catholic.


If the fox is dying needlessly it is a mortal sin, because it falls under the 7th Commandment according to the Church.


It's in black and white.

Even if it wasn't mortal, and it's venial, it's still a sin. If one thinks a sin is ok just because it's venial, then one does not know what it means to be Catholic.


God Bless.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Nov 24 2004, 10:33 AM'] I'm saying that if you are obstinate the teaching of the Church, then you don't know what it means to be Catholic.


[/quote]
This sentance doesn't make sense.

[popestpiusx]

The reason I don't buy the argument is that you have not sufficiently established several key points upon which your argument rests.

First, you have not established that Fox hunting causes the needless death of the fox.

Second, you have not demonstrated that even if it is a needless death, that the man would be directly responsible for it.

Third, even if the man is directly responsible, you have not established that it would be a mortal sin. You have merely asserted it as true, then asserted the notion that if one does not buy into your interpretation of the passage from the catechism, that one “doesn’t know what it means to be Catholic.

Your arguments here are nothing more than assertions or accusations but are not backed up by evidence or sound reasoning. You’ll have to do better than that.

[cmotherofpirl]

Killing an animal for pleasure is sinful, killing an animal for food is not.

[BeenaBobba]

Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with hunting. Most people eat the food they hunt, and honestly, I think that's better than eating the kind of meat you get at the grocery store. The animals aren't full of hormones and stuff, and you know for sure that the animals weren't treated badly in captivity if you kill them swiftly in the wild. Plus, you know you're benefiting the ecosystem by pruning herds.

I think killing for the heck of it would be wrong, though. Fox hunting is pretty cruel. Painful traps are immoral. Poaching is immoral. Killing hundres of birds when you're only going to eat a few is a bit wasteful, and it's probably sinful because it's wasteful.

God bless,

Jennifer

[Duc_In_Altum]

Charity is maturity, folks. Let's keep it.

el paz,


-Joe

[cmotherofpirl]

I changed my mind.

Edited November 24, 2004 by cmotherofpirl