Incest

[Socrates]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Nov 30 2004, 10:22 AM'] Sure, if by "truly love" you mean "love the way I tell you to". I'm sure the catholic view of polyamory is a dim one. If you choose not to see it as a method of control, that's fine, but it does control your behavior. As for the book you mention, no decent leader would [i]ever[/i] admit that he/she is trying to control his/her followers. [/quote]
What does the Pope have to gain personally by "controlling" the sexual morals of Catholics?

If the Pope was out for power and "control," he sure seems to be using a poor method. Why would he keep preaching such unpopular doctrines about sexuality that people don't want to follow?

A much more effective method of controlling the people would be to tell them what they want to hear, give them an "easy morality," become wildly popular, and then scam them or whatever.

The Pope does not behave like a politician. He speaks the truth, whether people want to listen to it or not. The idea that he is just out for personal power and gain is ludicrous.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 30 2004, 10:54 AM'] What does the Pope have to gain personally by "controlling" the sexual morals of Catholics?

If the Pope was out for power and "control," he sure seems to be using a poor method. Why would he keep preaching such unpopular doctrines about sexuality that people don't want to follow?

A much more effective method of controlling the people would be to tell them what they want to hear, give them an "easy morality," become wildly popular, and then scam them or whatever.

The Pope does not behave like a politician. He speaks the truth, whether people want to listen to it or not. The idea that he is just out for personal power and gain is ludicrous. [/quote]
Of course, that isn't what I said, now is it? I suppose I should have made my point more clear: the church's doctrines control your behavior. Whether or not the people in power now are there for the element of control doesn't matter.

And then "scam them or whatever"? Please, do elaborate.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

...

[Brother Adam]

Again, you are so wrapped up in the idea of "control" that you see any control as being "bad". My guess is you lead towards anarchy and chaos as a worldview. Your view of religion needs to be broader than just "control". If you focus solely on this idea you lose a great wealth of information.

Religion as a whole has brougth both good and evil into the world. So has atheistic anarchy. On a historical scale religion has brought far more good into the world than has athiesm.

Religion guides beliefs and practices - "control", yet one is free to reject or embrace religion as they like. The "control" is not forced as it would be in communism. Anyone is free to leave at any time. The principles taught in a Christian worldview are virtues. Those taught in atheism are often vices.

If you are the type of person who fears any authority or any control in your life, than I would suggest that you have greater insecurities that need to be sorted out before you can approach a religion, especially the one true religion of Catholicism and debate on philosophical grounds with any merit.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Nov 30 2004, 08:23 PM'] Again, you are so wrapped up in the idea of "control" that you see any control as being "bad". My guess is you lead towards anarchy and chaos as a worldview. Your view of religion needs to be broader than just "control". If you focus solely on this idea you lose a great wealth of information.

[/quote]
At what point did I say that it was bad?

[quote]Religion guides beliefs and practices - "control", yet one is free to reject or embrace religion as they like. The "control" is not forced as it would be in communism. Anyone is free to leave at any time. The principles taught in a Christian worldview are virtues. Those taught in atheism are often vices. [/quote]

Since when is atheism a thing that is taught? The only thing that qualifies as atheism is the disbelief in a supreme being. Any principles to which you are referring are not a part of being an atheist.

[quote]If you are the type of person who fears any authority or any control in your life, than I would suggest that you have greater insecurities that need to be sorted out before you can approach a religion, especially the one true religion of Catholicism and debate on philosophical grounds with any merit.[/quote]

Heh. Again, I never said that I fear either authority or control. I simply pointed out that the sentiments listed came from a place of control. Self-control is a far greater virtue than submitting to authority. I place the limits on my own sexuality so I don't need someone else to tell me with whom and why I can have sex.

And, please, don't question my ability to debate on philisophical grounds. It's rude.

[Brother Adam]

Again, self control is anarchy when a higher authority is rejected. "Only I am in charge of myself and I will do as I so choose". You clearly deny any higher authority, religous or govermental in your statements and thus psychologically to suggest there are underlying insecurities is not rude but valid concern.

And athiesm is taught. Check your local bookshelves at Barnes and Noble. However, as has been proven over and over again through anthropology the worship of a higher being is built into our human existance.