Aloysius Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 kecharitomene is perfect past particple therefore, i think the translation would be "Hail one who has always been full of grace" whereas with Stephen, it was pleres charis, meaning full of grace. at that moment, he was full of grace. i know that was already said, but not everyone gets it yet. tryin to make it more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Granted, however, "pleres charis" and "kecharitomene" both mean "filled up with grace" However, pleres is an adjective, meaning "full" and charis is a noun, meaning "grace" Full of what? Full of GRACE. However, kecharitomene is a verb.... Im musing to myself... It would REALLY help if there were a Greek scholar on this here board... I was quoting scholars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 hey Cmom, Im sorry. The scholar you quoted didn't make it sufficiently clear to my thick mind. Aloysius made it clear though. So is pleres charis an adjective describing a noun, and kecharitomene a conjugated verb? (charitoo) Im just trying to figure out which parts of speech the two phrases are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 hey Cmom, Im sorry. The scholar you quoted didn't make it sufficiently clear to my thick mind. Aloysius made it clear though. So is pleres charis an adjective describing a noun, and kecharitomene a conjugated verb? (charitoo) Im just trying to figure out which parts of speech the two phrases are. :D i'm more clear than scholars!!!! B) thanx 4 the self esteem boost, ICTHUS. B) and yeah i think u got it right. i'm not a greek scholar, though, i just interpret them B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Just my two cents' worth. Kecharitomene, as Aloysius said, is a perfect past participle, so to be translated along the lines of 'you (female) who have been and remain filled with the divine grace'---I think that's what the New Jerusalem Bible admits in a footnote. Pleres charis is more like Stephen, at that point, is filled with grace just before he gets stoned (literally I mean, not drugs! ) The difference being that for Mary this being filled with grace goes back (hence perfect past participle) in time to her very beginning. So she is more thoroughly redeemed---the Immaculate Conception. Mary has always been and remains full of grace, and Stephen gets filled with grace only from a certain point in time. Maybe I've made things less clear. Time to go, before I turn into a pumpkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Pleres charis is more like Stephen, at that point, is filled with grace just before he gets stoned (literally I mean, not drugs! ) wait, can't i privately interpret that to mean he got stoned and then overdosed? B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Private interpretation? Are you kidding? Poor St Stephen!!! Let me not laugh at his expense.... At least he's happy in heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now